Independence Day - June 23rd

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ashmie
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by ashmie » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:03 pm

"It's like when the ministry of magic go into hiding and the death eaters are everywhere......only real!"
My mate Nick last Friday. :lol:

It's been a hellish week here ladz so it's been a comfort to hear your opinions. The general vibe here is those who voted remain have gone into a state of shock which has had people crashing cars, missing work and fighting with family and friends. Those who voted leave going "shit I never thought they would allow that" and a lot of Bregretters, leave voters who didn't realise the realty of a leave and that there was absolutely no plan in place from the government should we get a leave majority. I haven't seen anyone jumping for joy apart from some very optimistic Ukipers.
Personally I think it has been a disgrace to put such an important decision on the shoulders of the people. Many families have fallen out and the media are now drumming up hatred towards the elderly who voted leave. Apparently young people and students feel betrayed. In addition the media as well as highlighting the race and class war (which has always been there but never so blatantly recorded down on paper until now) are also claiming we have an age divide.
In years to come whatever the outcome of this politicians will be able to look back and say well it wasn't our fault it was what the people wanted.

It's not all gloomy though.

Good things that have come out of it. People are interested in politics again and the establishment has been given the wake up call of a lifetime. I'm hoping young people will take further interest and instead of feeling disenfranchised see this an opportunity for them to take control. It would be good to see some new 'honest' politicians again. People with the courage of their convictions and not just general administrators after the popular vote and a business deal. Not all politicians are like that now of course but it would be good to see some fresh ideas and intelligence in the house of commons. There has even been whispers of teaching GCSE politics as a result of this. Things will never be the same again.
I hope you UK guys got your postal votes in. I desperately don't want the UK to lose Scotland but I think it would be unfair at this stage to deny them independence any longer after this shocking result. I've spoken to remain and leave voters and what we are most concerned about now is keeping fascism and civil unrest at bay as well as keeping the British community together. People are really scared. It could be a dangerous time I'm sad to report, but I can confirm that being British all we've done so far is sit around the news waggling heads, drinking tea and going "What a mess". I hope we can hold things together and keep some decorum. A word and concept we lost a long while back imho.
As I write Corbyn has been digging his heels in after being given the vote of no confidence from his party as he has the support of the public who supported and elected him last year. Boris has stood down, done a runner, (thank you Etonians) and it looks like it might be Theresa May as Iron Lady 2 (Prime Minister).
And yes, for heavens sake. Now is the time to order those Nottingham boxes boys ;) :lol:

Take care. Bet you are glad you're in Japan. Best country in the world right now I reckon :D

PS: Yes this has gone beyond party political issues. In fact I think it's fair to say the days of party politics are dead now and we are going to see something very different over the next 2 years with this exit.
Many couldn't bare to vote with Cameron and he was voting remain. So was Corbyn which was weird as despite being Labour he was never a fan of the EU. In fact the old Labour before Tony Blair were very anti EEC back in the 80's. Corbyn has kept quiet about which way he voted. Which is fair. It's supposed to be a private ballot and last weekend there was a bit of witch hunt on to find out who in your friends and family voted leave which I feel was disappointing if not understandable.
It's all hot air until someone has the balls to activate the leave (article 50). What a job.

Lovejoy: The Manc who said the unemployed and ripped off voted leave and the middle class with jobs and good prospects in the city voted remain is not far off the mark to be fair.
Forget about yesterday, don't worry about tomorrow because all that matters is today.

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Primarch
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Primarch » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:48 am

I have already heard from my parents that they have had a falling out on facebook with a couple of my old friends after they made several posts blaming the referendum result on "Coffin Dodgers". According to some (highly simplified) analysis put up online, people over 50 tended to vote leave, while those under 50 were more likely to vote remain. Of the two groups, the under 50 age category is larger. So for all those complaining that old folks ruined their country, it would seem the poor voter turn out among the younger generations is to blame. Next time you see someone blaming pensioners for the result, remind them that if the 18-25 age group had voted in the same numbers as the 65+ crowd, the results would be significantly different.
There are also claims that old people didn't care what happens to the country. But those people are the younger people's parents and grand parents. They obviously thought that an independent country is better for their children's future.

I am surprised by the apparent complacency with which most politicians, economists, financers and traders approached the referendum. Nobody seemed to have any plans in place in case the vote did go to Leave. The stock market losses etc. could have been handled much better than they were. At least things are going back to something like stability as people realise that the world hasn't ended.

A referendum was always going to divide the country, that much was clear from the Scottish situation when they had theirs. Fingers crossed politicians start to look at the causes for the divisions and start to address them. Though it does look like Cameron, BoJo, Gove and Corbyn won't be the ones doing it. May could be a reasonable choice for the new Tory leader, I don't know much about the other candidates. She is definitely not as Pro-EU as other members of the cabinet. Fingers crossed, all this mess encourges politicians to stop messing about and work towards healing the country.
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Washoi
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Washoi » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:05 am

Well, I had no idea so many of us on this forum are ex-pat Brits... I'm usually the only one in a group! On a brighter note it'll be easier to pay off my student loans.... I guess?...

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Konrad
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Konrad » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:29 am

Washoi wrote:Well, I had no idea so many of us on this forum are ex-pat Brits... I'm usually the only one in a group! On a brighter note it'll be easier to pay off my student loans.... I guess?...
I thought it was only us 'mericans with crushing student loans. I heard higher ed in the EU nations was free, and you got a pony too! ;)
...and now his Head was full of nothing but Inchantments, Quarrels, Battles, Challenges, Wounds, Complaints, Amours, and abundance of Stuff and Impossibilities.....
Cervantes, Don Quixote

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Primarch
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Primarch » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:51 am

Konrad wrote:
Washoi wrote:Well, I had no idea so many of us on this forum are ex-pat Brits... I'm usually the only one in a group! On a brighter note it'll be easier to pay off my student loans.... I guess?...
I thought it was only us 'mericans with crushing student loans. I heard higher ed in the EU nations was free, and you got a pony too! ;)
Do you know how much ponies cost to feed and store? :D
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Spevna
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Spevna » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:33 pm

These two videos are well worth a watch.

The first one is pre referendum, the second is post.

Each is around 20 minutes, but I do recommend watching them.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

https://youtu.be/0dosmKwrAbI
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Primarch
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Primarch » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:43 pm

Spevna wrote:These two videos are well worth a watch.

The first one is pre referendum, the second is post.

Each is around 20 minutes, but I do recommend watching them.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

https://youtu.be/0dosmKwrAbI
Thanks for posting those.
The guy presenting the info is very good. Informative, easy to understand and obviously well informed on the subject. Definitely worth a watch!
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Spevna » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:58 pm

Primarch wrote:
Spevna wrote:These two videos are well worth a watch.

The first one is pre referendum, the second is post.

Each is around 20 minutes, but I do recommend watching them.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

https://youtu.be/0dosmKwrAbI
Thanks for posting those.
The guy presenting the info is very good. Informative, easy to understand and obviously well informed on the subject. Definitely worth a watch!

I actually posted these with you in mind. They have been doing the rounds on Facebbook so quite a few have seen them, but I know you have yet to succumb to that vice.
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ashmie
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by ashmie » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:55 am

Watched and shared.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

https://youtu.be/0dosmKwrAbI

Is it fair to say that all campaigns are dishonest if we are lied to on such a scale?
Forget about yesterday, don't worry about tomorrow because all that matters is today.

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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Post by Spevna » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:37 am

ashmie wrote:Watched and shared.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

https://youtu.be/0dosmKwrAbI

Is it fair to say that all campaigns are dishonest if we are lied to on such a scale?
In the beginning I was genuinely unsure about which way to go. It took very little time and effort for me to do the research required to see that the Leav campaigns claims were dishonest.

People allow themselves to be lied to if the lies fit their preconceived notions of how things are. If you read something that justifies and supports what you already believe to be true, why would you go through the the trouble of checking it out? I think that is how the majority of people think on both sides of any debate.

Campaigns are but their very nature prone to varying degrees of dishonesty as they have an agenda or point they wish to make. It it the responsibility of the public to thoroughly research and educate themselves on the issues at hand.
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