Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

[job]

Speak for yourself there skippy. I haven't bought anything from GW for more than two years and don't intend to start now.

Aside from the odd purchase here and there to round of a collection, anyone willing to continue buying from them on a regular basis is an idiot. That may seem like a sweeping statement but the sweeping price hikes across the board coupled with a switch over to a cheaper material can't help but make me think so.

I speak as a prophet of GW, not for you. Anyway, you've only been away for a couple of years. I've been there before... You're still not out of their reach.

Speak for yourself there skippy. I haven't bought anything from GW for more than two years and don't intend to start now.

Aside from the odd purchase here and there to round of a collection, anyone willing to continue buying from them on a regular basis is an idiot. That may seem like a sweeping statement but the sweeping price hikes across the board coupled with a switch over to a cheaper material can't help but make me think so.

Well, since I will probably be buying some models in the future, you can call me an idiot. I like the games, I like the models and if I like them enough I may even buy one or two (plastic) kits every now and again.
The important thing for everyone to note is this. Spev hasn't bought anything from GW directly for 2 years, but he has bought GW models from Ebay. He also plays games using GW models despite not having bought from them. It's almost as if you can continue to play the game despite price increases.

For everyone who is running around like headless chickens and planning to dump 30000 yen on Warmachine (which up to a week ago they had ZERO interest in). Stop. Think. Even if you are planning to take a Spevna Stance (trademark pending) and boycott GW's products, that doesn't mean that you cannot continue to play with the models you already have. Its not like they are charging you to play, or that your enjoyment of the game rests on your ability to purchase more models. Dont hate the game, hate the Games Workshop.

SOME is the key word here. Your future purchases will never be what they once were. If they somehow creep back up to past levels, you shall indeed be labeled idiot.

Aside from that, I am in total agreement. I buy my minis used from Ebay. I will always play WH40K in some form or another. I may try using different more generic rules for my 40K minis but I won't be giving up on the game.

Love 40K, hate GW. Repeat the mantra over and over again until it becomes second nature.

I repeat that mantra with every cursed dice roll, but it's an addiction, man. It never stops me from the enjoyment of the game.
I'd have to agree with Primarch that you shouldn't make your GW revolt into the reason you need to blow the cash on a new game. Just like with GW games, you probably ought to spend the money on things you want after you know you want them. There's no hurry.

Anyway, we might put this in perspective. While the price hikes suck, and GW is out-pacing most of the gaming market, but the ban on international sales really sucks for us. Still, this is probably because it is hurting hobby stores internationally. It is a shame we don't have a really devoted GW store in Nagoya, but if we did, I'm sure we'd be spending time there. The last thing a gaming store, the type with tables to freely use, needs is for people to only meander in with stuff bought outside, principally from the internet. Hopefully, if there is any good out of this, it helps to support those stores and establish gaming here in Japan.

[The Other Dave]

For everyone who is running around like headless chickens and planning to dump 30000 yen on Warmachine (which up to a week ago they had ZERO interest in). Stop. Think. Even if you are planning to take a Spevna Stance (trademark pending) and boycott GW's products, that doesn't mean that you cannot continue to play with the models you already have. Its not like they are charging you to play, or that your enjoyment of the game rests on your ability to purchase more models. Dont hate the game, hate the Games Workshop.

(Not that it wouldn't be super cool to have more Warmahordes players.)

But I agree, fundamentally. Stopping playing a game you (presumably) love and have spent a lot of money on because the company pulled a di... a dumb move is not clear-headed thinking. Heck, I still play Epic (as much as I can, anyway) even though I hate GW for not only dropping support for it but all-but taking active measures to kill it.

[Mike the Pike]

they are greedy pigs they make at least 90% profit from their product... and they are still hiking up the prices

I have a sneaky feeling that the above figure was extracted from the same place on the Madmiral's anatomy that he wishes that GW would stick their models. I think it would be hard to make 90% profit on metal models when the price of tin has nearly doubled in the past year and gone up nearly 500% in the last five.

[Mike the Pike]

these sick ba$#@rds are total jerks for singling South America the average salary is so much lower than what it is in the west and the people that play down there are dependent on the low prices of places like Wayland and Maelstrom in order to play at all.. the elitist pigs at GW have gone too far.

Another classic from the Madmiral. There are so may things wrong with this statement it's hard to know where to begin. How about the South America thing? The new trade agreement with Maelstrom etc affects pretty much everywhere except the EC and a select few other countries. Kiwis, Aussies, Koreans, South Africans, Canadians are all going to have to deal with this too. Secondly, the last time I looked, average wages in countries like Poland and Greece were not exactly stellar either. Thirdly, as someone who seems to profess an interest in current affairs and the way the world works, why use such an out-dated term as 'the west', where exactly is this 'west' you speak of? Finally, this hobby we all enjoy has never been an "every-man's" hobby and has always been played by an elite and geeky few. Science Fiction and Fantasy models are a luxury item no matter where you live. There are plenty of folks living in G7 countries that would love to have sufficient disposable income to be able to afford a plastic tank model whenever they feel like it.

[Admiral-Badruck]

At mike the Pike nothing but love for you mate thanks for railing on me man... always nice to see the facts come out... GW is still a greed money grubbing fiend...

and not matter what happens I do not care if they come out with Pirate Orks with dead Eldar on the bases I am not going to spend anymore money on their over costed models.

If GW really wanted to help B&Mshops in Japan they would have hit international online sellers along time ago.

As for the price of metal models I have nothing to say except Privateer Press seem to be doing just fine giving us models made of metal at reasonable price.

[Mike the Pike]

The following thoughts flashed through my caffeine and stress addled mind during the wee hours of last night concerning the recent goings on at GW. They may or may not reflect my actual opinions of this author but I thought they are worth putting out there anyways for for folks to chew on.

1) The golden age is over (provisionally) and that is rather sad. But did anyone really believe it was going to last forever? The 'Lehman Brothers Shock' that sent the Pound and US dollar spiraling downwards against the yen was only a year and a half ago. Before that, the exchange rate was over 200 yen to the pound and had been for ages.

Secondly, I don't think anyone had even heard of Maelstrom/Wayland much before 2010 then, let alone used them on a regular basis. My first order with Maelstrom was in Jan.2010 IIRC. Previously, I had used The Warstore in the States, but found that insane shipping prices wiped out any potential discount. Prior to that, I had bought from GW direct at the 200+ exchange rate and before that from my FLGS in NZ at an even more outrageous exchange rate/sales tax rate. My CSM, Dark Elf and Beastmen armies were all built up to several thousand points before this 'Golden time'.

It was very nice while it lasted, and I got a lot of cool stuff during that time that I probably wouldn't have if conditions weren't so great (My Eldar army, GW scenery etc) but such is life. Now that it looks like things might be over, I will scale back my purchasing accordingly. Think of our beloved hobby as Wagyu steak. It's a luxury that many of us enjoy once and a while, and when it's on sale you might buy more of it than normal, but you don't curse the butcher for putting the price back up once the sale is over or raising prices to keep pace with inflation etc. It's not a perfect analogy but that's how I look at it.

Then again, there are one or two rather simple ways to circumvent the new restrictions with a minimum of fuss and only a small extra outlay of cash. I suspect that Prim's master plan is based on one of these.

[jus]

Part of the hobby for me, is collecting new models. Sure I'll continue playing GW games, and I sure hope everyone else does. But it wouldn't be as fun if we stopped adding new elements to our existing armies I think, and thus will continue to make purchases every now and then. I for one still want the hobby and the community to grow despite "the end of the world" and I still need people to play WFB with. That last bit is very important.

I have faith in Prims "plan" which is starting to sound to me like some alternate means of trade which will allow us to make purchases while keeping our sanity.. (or I could be very wrong.) Either way I hope it pans out and that it helps this sorry state of affairs so that we can all drink herbal tea, hold hands and sing kum baya
Jobs right about supporting stores here as well, like Ikeda sans place. Maybe we could set up a thing where everyone chips (500-1000 yen or so) in to get some one a box/some boxes of something for their birthday so that it:

1. it eases financial strain for everyone (what's a thousand yen right) and the collective efforts of the community help circumvent the feeling of being buggered
2. armies continue to expand
3. hobby is promoted
4. someone feels loved

As for the sudden interest in Warmahordes...Its a great little game, but I'd try before you buy.

[Mike the Pike]

2) On resin.

While I had hoped the switch from Metal to resin was going to work out cheaper I am not particularly surprised that it has turned out more expensive. Why? Surely resin is cheaper than metal? I am not so sure. All resins are not created equal. While natural resins such as Amber and Kauri gum are 100% created by Mother nature and the latter was so non-toxic it was actually chewed a la gum back in the day, they are in fact completely useless for making wargames figures. Synthetic resins vary wildly in their properties too. I have a sneaky feeling that Finecast will not be the same product as the stuff used by Forge World, which is dificult to work with, requires extensive cleaning, is prone to warping and is possibly carcinogenic. IMHO The price increase could well reflect the fact that producing a non-toxic, sturdy, workable, paintable resin isn't exactly a cheap venture. However if it turns out the new stuff isn't all those things I mentioned above I will be taking a Spevna stance along with everyone else when it comes to Finecast.

[Mike the Pike]

3) Net stores versus Brick and Mortar FLGSs

GW hasn't actually said why they are limiting the markets of the big Net sellers, nor are they likely too. I suspect though that it is not 'to screw gamers' in countries outside Europe/The USA but rather, as has been suggested in various forums, it is to protect B&M stores. Rightly or wrongly, the thinking at GW (and Battlefront too) is that real, actual stores are the lifeblood of the hobby and help the hobby grow. I would actually tend to agree, as long as the owners are enthusiastic and do their part to promote the hobby. While I was introduced to the game by friends it was at my FLGS that I was truly hooked. seeing, actual, well painted models on proper tables with cool terrain was a geek epiphany. Seeing pics on the net is just not the same. In that regard it is the same as Pink cowgirls.

Anyways, back to my point. How can local hobby stores (and GW's own stores) possibly survive when they are competing against Maelstrom/Wayland? Since the start of the 'Golden Age' I haven't bought anything significant from a Japan based retailer. In two years, I have bought a few paints, some static grass and a gaming mat. All my other purchases have been from overseas. I suspect most of us are in the same boat. I feel a tad guilty saying it, but I for one will be investigating every way possible not to pay 225 yen to the pound for GW stuff. I don't think I will be alone in that.

[job]

GW hasn't actually said why they are limiting the markets of the big Net sellers, nor are they likely too. I suspect though that it is not 'to screw gamers' in countries outside Europe/The USA but rather, as has been suggested in various forums, it is to protect B&M stores. Rightly or wrongly, the thinking at GW (and Battlefront too) is that real, actual stores are the lifeblood of the hobby and help the hobby grow. I would actually tend to agree, as long as the owners are enthusiastic and do their part to promote the hobby. While I was introduced to the game by friends it was at my FLGS that I was truly hooked. seeing, actual, well painted models on proper tables with cool terrain was a geek epiphany. Seeing pics on the net is just not the same. In that regard it is the same as Pink cowgirls.

I think I said something to this effect above, but without the knowledge of the term of FLGS was or in discrimination of Pink cowgirls, whom if ever show up at a gaming group I would think is very sexy and approve.

Anyways, back to my point. How can local hobby stores (and GW's own stores) possibly survive when they are competing against Maelstrom/Wayland? Since the start of the 'Golden Age' I haven't bought anything significant from a Japan based retailer. In two years, I have bought a few paints, some static grass and a gaming mat. All my other purchases have been from overseas. I suspect most of us are in the same boat. I feel a tad guilty saying it, but I for one will be investigating every way possible not to pay 225 yen to the pound for GW stuff. I don't think I will be alone in that.

Exactly, mate. I just ordered a Daemon Prince from Yellow Sub. I know I'm going to pay through the nose for it, but I feel good that at least it will help keep one of our very few GW links supported here in Nagoya. Now we just need to find an establishment that has gaming tables.