So...what exactly is this "constitution" thingy?

[Admiral-Badruck]

Penn Jillette is a libertarian so thanks for the plug.

As for the points of marriage, education, health, and business, practices. Are you saying you want government telling you who you can Marry, how much and what you need to or are allowed to study, how about what treatments you can take and by whom you can take them from, or who you can trade with how much you have to be paid and how much you have to pay for things. Personally I would not like my own parents telling what to do about any of the stuff before mentioned of course they would try to convince me of the things that would be best for me in their eyes but if I would not like them making decisions for me I would like it a lot less if government (total strangers who know nothing about me)did the same thing. Who has the right to tell you how to run your life about any of this stuff? Do you think that some benevolent angels run things? Normally the guys in charge are only in charge because they have guns or money. Since government takes money at the point of a gun and then pretends to give it back in the form of entitlements they are the root of the problem.

[Admiral-Badruck]

. It's the bastards in society that necessitate government, rules and police.

Personally, if we're talking hypothetical ideal societies, I like a dictatorship, run by an extremely intelligent person with access to all the information and who keeps the best interests of the public front and centre in every decision made. Clearly, such a person would never rise to be in charge of a dictatorship, but I did say it was hypothetical...

Dictators and the government are the bastards in society ... It is like being in a hole and saying lets dig are way out with more government shovels. I have never been heard of a cop preventing a crime they are just part of the game of thrones. Which BTW is a really great show.

[Primarch]

Do I want someone telling me what a safe dosage of medicine is? Yes please. Do I want someone to guarantee me a minimum wage? Sure. Do I want someone to provide an infrastructure to ensure that the poor people at least have a chance at an education? Sounds good.

[job]

It seems MiJ is an idealistic Platonist, while Badruck is the cynical anarchist.

Very good conversation.

Personally I'm with Prim having seen firemen put fires out and cops that genuinely care for people and protection. Of course I've seen the otherside of this too.

As for guns, I do think society has an interest in who owns and possesses guns. While it can be Wild wild west like in Somalia Afghanistan and the USA, but personally I feel safer in a fairly restrictive one like Japan.

[me_in_japan]

It seems MiJ is an idealistic Platonist,

Hypothetically, at least

[Spevna]

Penn Jillette is a libertarian so thanks for the plug.

I know. I have all of Penn and Teller's Bullshit on my hard drive. They are quite the entertaining duo.

As for the points of marriage, education, health, and business, practices. Are you saying you want government telling you who you can Marry, how much and what you need to or are allowed to study, how about what treatments you can take and by whom you can take them from, or who you can trade with how much you have to be paid and how much you have to pay for things.

Not only that, I want them to tell me who to marry, when to marry, where to marry, and how long to be married for.

Of course I dont think any of that.

I do however think;

- that getting private insurance/health care/pensions for me and my spouse is much easier with a legally recognised marriage certifacte.

- that having to prove I am in fact legally married to my wife before being allowed to make important medical decisions on her behalf if she cannot do so for herself is a good thing.

-that being able to look at league tables for schools and unis to choose the best for my kids is good.

-that having a governing body to check standards is good too.

-licensing medical staff before allowing them to practice is pretty cool.

-that having well established and clear safety guidelines, and a governing body to oversee them is a must.

- a mandated minimum wage is great.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Minimum wage is the worst thing that ever happened to the poor.

The minimum wage is the lowest price people are willing to work for. If you are not willing to work for it then you do not have to work there.

But when government issues a minumum wage people loose their jobs. Because employers will not pay more than the workers will generate.

We act like having poor people is a bad thing.

Everything you have mentioned dosages, infrastructure Fire departments could be regulated and administered by freemarkets and NPOs and NGOs with in voluntary sosiety...

Government wastes much more wealth than any other organisation because they just take money from productive people and give it to the guys with guns so they can take more money from the productives and buy more guns.

[Primarch]

All of that only works if everyone is kind, selfless and puts the community first. Sadly to say, humans aren't that altruistic.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a government-free utopian society is a bad thing, nor am I trying to claim that the world's governments do a good job. For the most part, they do waste money needlessly. However, they also give money to poorer countries, provide hospitals, welfare, infrastructure, education and a hundred other things. Governments are VERY inefficient, but they do offer a lot of benefits.
The idea that crime would disappear if there were no police and no laws is absurd. Although, in a very literal sense, a lawless society would have zero crime as for a crime to be committed you must have a law in place. However, fear of punishment is central to human nature. Look at those parts of the world where government control and police presence are minimal, inner city ghettos, parts of the Middle East and Africa.
If anything, governments need to do a better job, because political anarchism - whilst a nice theory - doesn't work unless everyone worldwide follows those principles.

And yes, having poor people IS a bad thing. Nobody should be poor.

P.s. for what it is worth, the UK government just passed a law allowing gay people to marry and has been cutting military spending since they came to power.

[The Underdweller]

Interesting discussion...

Badruck, I looked up Anarchy on Wikipedia and found there are lots of different kinds of anarchy. What is your idea of an anarchy? No government at all, or some sort of communal government, or more of a Libertarian type of thing?

Do you know of any countries or areas that have successfully had such a system?

@MIJ - I agree with the "Beneficial Dictator in theory" as likely being the best form of government which will never happen...it would have to be some sort of Supernatural being or Alien I guess. Maybe Superman?

[job]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV4bQMI2R7w

The last word on a true discussion of civics.