Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:27 am
I thought I'd start a new thread here in the Mordheim forum before me and MIJ totally hijack the Mordheim game day in Tsu thread with long boring rules debate.
For the real dual/wield/armor debate check out....
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.c ... -t2735.htm
And back to MIJ, I think the issue is that Beastmen are a pretty one dimensional Warband, not that the -1 to hit modifier for dual wielding would hurt them so much. It would affect everyone. If you are worried about armor, an 5gc axe will still nulify 20gc worth of armour. If the -1 to hit bothers you, Halberds are a viable option.
I bet for the 25-30 (?)gc (sorry, rule book not in front of me) that a guy might spend on Lt armour and a shield, I bet you can get an Ungor with a club. And for the money, the best armour in my opinon is still a Henchman to take the hit for your Hero.
Don't give up on the Beasts! Your Warband is so nicely painted. You just need more Ungor. Hordes and hordes of club swinging savages.
MIJ wrote
*edit* re-reading all the variant rules, it seems the authors are driving for one main point: everyone should take armour. no-one should take two hand weapons. I know that under the current ruleset the opposite is true, but these rules seem like a knee-jerk overreaction. We'll just end up with all warbands being armed with 1 hand weapon, shield, and light/heavy armour, depending upon finances. To my mind, this would be very, very unfluffy for beastmen. If there were any incentive at all to take an extra hand weapon over a shield, id be less fussed, but there seems to be no incentive at all. the extra attack is not an improvement on hitting on a 4+ - statistically theres very little difference, and with the single 4+ hit you can carry a shield, too.
I didn't get that at all. I think the point is to make some variety in warbands and make other options besides mace/sword weapon combinations viable.
I am not a math guy, but my gamer's instinct tells me that 2 dice needing a 5+ will still get you more hits than 1 die needing a 4+ over the long haul. I don't see the shield/single hand weapon combo being any better. If you want to play offensively, take 2 hand weapons for the extra chance to hit, if you want to play defensively, take a shield for the chance to block one of those hits.
One of the guys on the Tom's boring forum wrote about the effects of using one of the options (A,B,C) Iforget which) in his campaign. He said that most Warbands still dual-weld at first. Once the warriors got some experience, (multiple attacks, higher WS) you would see some shield/hand wpn combos as a tougher fighter does not need the extra attack die as much and a more valuable fighter is worth playing a bit more defensively with. Most folks did not buy armor, but did keep it if they managed to find some during exploration.
I'm going to start a Necromunda campaign in the fall, houseruling in a lot of the Anthony Case rules. I was thinking that if there with the big Mordheim bash going down in Tsu, it might be a good time to talk about houserules for Mordheim. Maybe someone want's to take charge and be the "House" so to speak.
For the real dual/wield/armor debate check out....
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.c ... -t2735.htm
And back to MIJ, I think the issue is that Beastmen are a pretty one dimensional Warband, not that the -1 to hit modifier for dual wielding would hurt them so much. It would affect everyone. If you are worried about armor, an 5gc axe will still nulify 20gc worth of armour. If the -1 to hit bothers you, Halberds are a viable option.
I bet for the 25-30 (?)gc (sorry, rule book not in front of me) that a guy might spend on Lt armour and a shield, I bet you can get an Ungor with a club. And for the money, the best armour in my opinon is still a Henchman to take the hit for your Hero.
Don't give up on the Beasts! Your Warband is so nicely painted. You just need more Ungor. Hordes and hordes of club swinging savages.
MIJ wrote
*edit* re-reading all the variant rules, it seems the authors are driving for one main point: everyone should take armour. no-one should take two hand weapons. I know that under the current ruleset the opposite is true, but these rules seem like a knee-jerk overreaction. We'll just end up with all warbands being armed with 1 hand weapon, shield, and light/heavy armour, depending upon finances. To my mind, this would be very, very unfluffy for beastmen. If there were any incentive at all to take an extra hand weapon over a shield, id be less fussed, but there seems to be no incentive at all. the extra attack is not an improvement on hitting on a 4+ - statistically theres very little difference, and with the single 4+ hit you can carry a shield, too.
I didn't get that at all. I think the point is to make some variety in warbands and make other options besides mace/sword weapon combinations viable.
I am not a math guy, but my gamer's instinct tells me that 2 dice needing a 5+ will still get you more hits than 1 die needing a 4+ over the long haul. I don't see the shield/single hand weapon combo being any better. If you want to play offensively, take 2 hand weapons for the extra chance to hit, if you want to play defensively, take a shield for the chance to block one of those hits.
One of the guys on the Tom's boring forum wrote about the effects of using one of the options (A,B,C) Iforget which) in his campaign. He said that most Warbands still dual-weld at first. Once the warriors got some experience, (multiple attacks, higher WS) you would see some shield/hand wpn combos as a tougher fighter does not need the extra attack die as much and a more valuable fighter is worth playing a bit more defensively with. Most folks did not buy armor, but did keep it if they managed to find some during exploration.
I'm going to start a Necromunda campaign in the fall, houseruling in a lot of the Anthony Case rules. I was thinking that if there with the big Mordheim bash going down in Tsu, it might be a good time to talk about houserules for Mordheim. Maybe someone want's to take charge and be the "House" so to speak.
