40K 10th Ed. Discussion Thread

[Primarch]

Take with a pinch of salt as I haven't seen any first-hand proof of this myself, just inter-webs scuttlebutt;

In a recent stream, a GW employee said that all of the index cards will not be changing when a new codex drops. Your faction codex will introduce new units and new options, but existing stuff will continue to use the index cards.

Now, I'd assume that when stuff gets FAQ'd or Errata'd, new/updated cards will be available, but on the whole what we get this week and next is going to remain until the end of the edition.


And would it really have killed them to make a printer friendly version of the cards? (Yes, I know they want to sell you the cards).

[Jye Nicolson]

I think they've set themselves up reasonably well to make points the main lever to pull, with Detachments as the second, and can largely leave units alone.

It can't last though, they'll need to change something. For Marines + Nids it feels like the Codexes should already be printed and there's no reason for change. For the final codexes in a couple of years people will be gagging for changes

[Jye Nicolson]

The Marine rules look really cool!

The main thing to be aware of is that every single unit - every one - has a special rule. This is a simplification of the game compared to relying on Strategems, as then you'd have to worry about a lot of conditionals and sort through a lot of stuff for things you hadn't even taken. But it does mean you really do want to have the unit cards convenient to hand to check the one thing your squad can do, and actually building your army might involve some analysis paralysis. The context makes it clearer why Combat Patrol is a good idea for learning.

They mostly all look pretty solid though, and assuming the points aren't out of whack you shouldn't go *too* far wrong with a balanced force of models you like. Every unit has a role of its own, and while there'll be overlaps and point efficiencies that mean some of them stay on the shelf competitively, they all seem to have a job they do.

For my part I'm getting excited about the transports, especially Impulsors, and Bladeguard Squads packing their various leader options (Justiciar for fights first! Chaplains for hitting like trucks!). Eradicators look pretty good still, which is handy for me personally, and I think they'll synergise well with Repulsors. I particularly like all the different speeders act as buffers, giving a bonus to units that subsequently shoot their target (Incursors do this too, helping to give them a distinct identity from Infiltrators).

Relic Termies are also still in so I might end up throwing some Cataphractii out of a Spartan after all.

Vanguard Vets are definitely paying for their sins though, with all of their melee weapons collapsed into a single, somewhat anemic profile. I actually like this tendency, since it means you can model the units with the coolest pose rather than whatever particular profile feels mechanically best, but it's a bit weird they did it when everyone else still uses full stats for the same weapons, and they definitely needed to make them spicier to keep the unit a compelling option. Will be interested to see how Wolf Guard fare there.

Other than that though there's a lot of positives, I could even find a use for a Hammerfall Bunker or an ATV. Might even paint the rest of my Outriders.

[Primarch]

Someone in the design studio really hates Vanguard. But with the 'every HQ gets a datacard based on its wargear' design they've gone for, I think you can feasibly field an army that is just Captains and Lieutenants.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the generic wargear options they've decided to use on some of the units like Vanguard, Nid Warriors and combi-weapons. Especially when other things seem to have been left untouched or spawned multiple datacards based on possible load-outs for otherwise identical units. (Assault marines, Land Speeders etc).

Rather irritatingly, my Land Speeders I built and used back in 5th-7th ed are no longer game legal, despite the new proliferation of cards.

[Primarch]

The non-codex compliant chapters' indexes seem to have caused a bit of a stir. By all accounts the firstborn Space Wolves got spayed, Blood Angels and Black Templars are pretty good, Dark Angels have units that ignore D1 guns (ie most bolters and bolter equivalents) and Deathwatch already broke the game.
Now, how much of that is just a knee-jerk reaction remains to be seen, as points costs will obviously play a big role in how things play out on the tabletop.

[Jye Nicolson]

Space Wolves are a bit of a knee jerk, since Thunderwolf Cavalry get a lot out of their unit rule and leaders. I'm not sure you want to use the detachment in a game you're hanging out to win though, Gladius gives you a lot of what you want more reliably. Sagas look fun but it's questionable how many you'll achieve and for how much of the game you'll enjoy them. We knew that from the teaser but I'm not sure the full rules go far enough on helping you achieve them (though Bjorn, Murderfang and a lot of good unit leaders are admittedly poised to give it a go).

Dark Angels are very good and their Knights (terminators, not mecha) are indeed very tough. -1d doesn't appear to be common but if it doesn't have a floor it's pretty nuts. Especially if they're the dudes giving Lone Operative to the Lion.

Deathwatch are quite strong but also happen to have the first thing I am 100% sure will get errata'd. Hellfire Rounds are busted, they're probably too good even without the Devastating Wounds interaction (anti-infantry 2+ for essentially whoever wants it is...uh. In a faction very good at reusing strats.)

Blood Angels and Black Templars both look solid. I think BA might also be tempted by Gladius but their detachment is more reliable than SW so worth a shot for sure.

[Primarch]

Wasn't -1D something that very quickly got errata'ed in 8th/9th, or am I misremembering? And how would that work on Mortal Wounds where each hit is applied individually?

With Gladius you can run most of the variant chapters fairly well it seems. Though I'm wondering how many Black Templar players will succumb to temptation and run a Librarian or 3.

Just waiting to see what the CSM release brings next...

[Jye Nicolson]

Yeah -1d got errated to "minimum of 1" every time it showed up before and so wouldn't be surprising if it was again.

It doesn't interact with Mortal Wounds at all, they just work as normal. Which is why the Deathwing Knights get a once per game Feel No Pain 4+ against mortals I guess!

[Primarch]

And my Iron Warriors lord, (in his fancy terminator armour,) will no longer spend time with the plebs, (in their common as muck power armour.)

So now I have to buy Chaos Termies or another HQ unit...

I'll just make use of a spare sergeant for the games this Sunday.

The Chaos Marks and the way they work with Strategems seem cool.

[Primarch]

Reading through the rules, I have a few questions I can't find answers to, but maybe I'm just being blind.

When you halve a value, do you round up or down? I would assume it is round up, but nothing in the rules states this explicitly.

What happens if you give a weapon with Sustained Hits 1, the Sustained Hits 1 rule (As CSM can quite easily do)? Do they stack? Do you take the best?

What happens if you give a weapon with Sustained Hits 1, the Lethal Hits 1 rule (Again as CSM can quite easily do)? Do you get both benefits? Do you have to choose? One of the character upgrades in the Chaos index gives a unit both SH1 and LH, so I would assume that both trigger, but you know what they say about assuming things.