New Space Marines

[Konrad]

Can Space Marines "ally with themselves", or does the allied contingent need to have a different Chapter Tactics from the main force? If so, then that's no different to Blood Angels with Space Wolves allies. Seems fair enough to me. I've always fancied a "crusade army".

The rulebook, on page 109, states "...this must be a different codex to the one used for the primary detachment." Unless Codex: Space Marines specifically addresses this issue, then it's no deal; I assume it does, because I've seen this mentioned in a few places.

Ah, so Codex Space Marines can ally with Codex Space marines as long as they are different colors. "I have a 2000 pt Codex Space Marine army. It's a Periwinkle Marine detachment with a Navy Blue allied force and a 2nd Periwinkle Marine Detachment with a Catalina Blue Marine allied force."
I'm only being sarcastic because I have little love for the May-reens. But like AGP says, a "crusade army" would be fun. An eclectic mix of knightly orders thrown together for an impossible conquest, I can dig that. But you don't need to call units "allies" just to paint them a different color. I mean, what's the point of all these ally rules and force organization slots if they are so flexible that they are not restrictions in any way? Well, beside to sell more models.

[Primarch]

Can Space Marines "ally with themselves", or does the allied contingent need to have a different Chapter Tactics from the main force? If so, then that's no different to Blood Angels with Space Wolves allies. Seems fair enough to me. I've always fancied a "crusade army".

The rulebook, on page 109, states "...this must be a different codex to the one used for the primary detachment." Unless Codex: Space Marines specifically addresses this issue, then it's no deal; I assume it does, because I've seen this mentioned in a few places.

All marine chapters in the new book are battle brothers.
You can ally two chapters if they have different chapter tactics.
E.g. Imperial Fists and Ultramarines is ok.
Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists isn't.

I just wrote up a 1500 and 2000 point list based on what I usually use in my Raven Guard army using the old codex and compared it to the new one.
All of my previous units can still be used. (No 'squat'-ing of units or having to replace arms a-la Tyranids).
The 1500 list worked out at 1420 in the new book. The 2000 point list came to 1874.

[me_in_japan]

I found much the same with my Eldar and my CSM. My army builds are still pretty much legal, and no reconstruction was required. This is a big win for any new codex.

As for allied chapters, would it be ok if I took a few extra squads of aspect warriors over and above those allowed for the FOC as long as I said they were from Biel-Tan? I mean, that's their chapter tactic right there: have lots of aspect warriors. As long as my core detachment is painted as Alaitoc we're all good, right? Right?

[Primarch]

I found much the same with my Eldar and my CSM. My army builds are still pretty much legal, and no reconstruction was required. This is a big win for any new codex.

As for allied chapters, would it be ok if I took a few extra squads of aspect warriors over and above those allowed for the FOC as long as I said they were from Biel-Tan? I mean, that's their chapter tactic right there: have lots of aspect warriors. As long as my core detachment is painted as Alaitoc we're all good, right? Right?

I think you might be able to do it with Iyanden? Wait till you get the other supplements I guess.

[me_in_japan]

Good god. And I thought I was being obviously ridiculous...

[Primarch]

Good god. And I thought I was being obviously ridiculous...

Nope, GW is being obviously ridiculous.
It is possible in a 2000 point game to have any mixture of the following:
5 HQs (3 compulsory), 14 Troops (5 compulsory), 7 Elites, 7 Fast Attack, 7 Heavy Support and 1 Fortification.
In other words, the FOC isn't worth a damn as you can fairly easily get round any restriction by min/maxing troops. I think marine scout squads now come at 55 points and Chaplains at 90.
Thats 545 points spent to cover the minimums and then you can just spam away nearly 1500 on one slot. 6 Land Raiders anyone? 21 Land Speeders with enough spare points to buy a terminator squad?

[Spevna]

Good god. And I thought I was being obviously ridiculous...

Nope, GW is being obviously ridiculous.
It is possible in a 2000 point game to have any mixture of the following:
5 HQs (3 compulsory), 14 Troops (5 compulsory), 7 Elites, 7 Fast Attack, 7 Heavy Support and 1 Fortification.
In other words, the FOC isn't worth a damn as you can fairly easily get round any restriction by min/maxing troops. I think marine scout squads now come at 55 points and Chaplains at 90.
Thats 545 points spent to cover the minimums and then you can just spam away nearly 1500 on one slot. 6 Land Raiders anyone? 21 Land Speeders with enough spare points to buy a terminator squad?

There isn't anyone on here dumb enough, obnoxious enough, or douchey enough to pull a stunt like that, is there?

[Auxryn]

Actually you can get a second allied detatchment at 2000 pts.
So for a 2000 pts army you can have 6 HQ (4 compulsory), 8 Elite, 16 Troops (6 Compulsory), 8 Fast Attack, and 8 Heavy Support.

8 Thunderfire cannons!
I really think they should have put the second detatchment at 2500 or more points. The way GW did it does not seem like a good design choice, But what are you going to do? Play Warmachine? Don't answer that.

However, you must pick both your allied detatchments from the same codex, and groups with different chapter tactics are considered to be different codexes with Battle Brothers relationships. (If my Japanese is correct).
So if you have 2 main detatchments of Periwinkle Marines then both your allied detatchments must be either Navy Blue or Catalina Blue. You cannot mix.
Also, because you are different armies certain "all units from your codex" rules don't work between detatchments and you can't enter allied transports (in the same way Space Marines can't climb into a Devilfish, an Ultramarine can't get into an Iron Hands Rhino. It's scary in there?)

I originally read that you could also ally with other chapters with the same chapter tactics, but on a second reading I see I got it wrong. It says you can't take Imperial Fists as primary and Crimson Fists as allies, but that you can take both Imperial Fists and Crimson first within the same detachment and they count as coming from the same codex since they are such good friends. This means you can paint each tactical squad differently and taste the rainbow.

Say, who was the primarch of the Rainbow Warriors?

[Colonel Voss]

Good god. And I thought I was being obviously ridiculous...

Nope, GW is being obviously ridiculous.
It is possible in a 2000 point game to have any mixture of the following:
5 HQs (3 compulsory), 14 Troops (5 compulsory), 7 Elites, 7 Fast Attack, 7 Heavy Support and 1 Fortification.
In other words, the FOC isn't worth a damn as you can fairly easily get round any restriction by min/maxing troops. I think marine scout squads now come at 55 points and Chaplains at 90.
Thats 545 points spent to cover the minimums and then you can just spam away nearly 1500 on one slot. 6 Land Raiders anyone? 21 Land Speeders with enough spare points to buy a terminator squad?

There isn't anyone on here dumb enough, obnoxious enough, or douchey enough to pull a stunt like that, is there?

Go visit bell of lost souls and you'll fine more than one. I just hope none of us are like that.

[AndrewGPaul]

Actually you can get a second allied detatchment at 2000 pts.
So for a 2000 pts army you can have 6 HQ (4 compulsory), 8 Elite, 16 Troops (6 Compulsory), 8 Fast Attack, and 8 Heavy Support.

With which army list? Using Space Wolves with allied Blood Angels, the minimum cost of that lot is 2,605 points, and that's with a really awful army;

4 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders
6 Lone Wolves
12 squads of 5 Grey Hunters
6 Fenrisian Wolf packs with 5 wolves each
6 squads of Long Fangs; 1 leader and one Long Fang with a heavy bolter each

2 Blood Angel Captains
2 Blood Angel Techmarines
2 Sanguinary Priests
3 Scout squad with 5 scouts
1 Death Company with 3 models
2 Attack Bikes
2 Predators

1 Aegis Defence Line

with no upgrades.

With some armies at certain levels, the Force Organisation Chart will be a restriction, while in other situations, the overall points limit will be the limiting factor. I certainly haven't witnessed it being an issue locally.