Adeptus Astartes

[Sergent Zhyr]

"Our strength is unbreakable. Our valour is undaunted."

I am still feeling new to this game, help with my Space marines would be favorable.

Primearch and Admiral-Badruk seem to have a lot to say about everything. And it looks like they both play Space Marines.

How can my Codex Marines keep up with the Space Wolves and the Blood Angels?

[Admiral-Badruck]

Well I am not sure if Prime still plays codex marines he mostly plays the BAs and the Space dogs... I have been building a PH- World Eaters army for the last few month I was hoping to play the as Blood Angels so I may not have the best tactics for normal Codex Space marines...

[Konrad]

I have not played against straight Codex Marines since last edition I think. Saddly, if your favorite flavor is vanilla, Space Wolves and BA look a lot stronger. It's Codex creep, rules inflation, call it what you will. Each new Codex is a little sexier than the one before. It's just marketing, though the optimist in my would like to think that a touch of over-enthusiasm and excitement on the designers part is to blame too. "Oh, oh I have a cool idea! It's (insert uber cheese of choice here)" "Dude, that's awsome! Yeah, put it in the book!"
I think the Codex Marines are still solid, balanced force. A basic Marine does everything pretty well. You won't have hordes of models or all sorts of wierd rules to keep track of. Remember your mission and don't get carried away trying to table your opponent I think you'll have your share of victory.
The thing that drives me crazy about Marines is that special rule they have, I forget what is is called something like "And They Shall Run Away and Come Back At You With That Damn Flamer or Hide And Deny You That Victory Point". For and Ork (like me) Marines are only dangerous when they are running away. Pesky beaky gits.

[Primarch]

Well I am not sure if Prime still plays codex marines he mostly plays the BAs and the Space dogs... I have been building a PH- World Eaters army for the last few month I was hoping to play the as Blood Angels so I may not have the best tactics for normal Codex Space marines...

Yet again showing what you actually know...I have played 1 game with BA EVER!!
The last 2 of my last 4 games were codex marines, the others being Dark Angels and Tyranids.
Current games played with wolves, 6
Current games played using codex marines 39

Anyhow, on to the topic at hand.
Space Marines are good all rounders, which is actually a drawback in some ways. Angels (red ones) and Wolves are good at assault, but regular marines aren't so hot. Sure, they will butcher guard or tau, but against real assault troops they will crumble pretty fast. They can outshoot some units but will die in a hail of fire to shooty armies. The trick is to pick your fights. This means shooting the stuff that is trying to assault you and assaulting the stuff which is trying to shoot you. This is true for most armies, but especially marines.

Doing this can be quite tricky, but marines can be quite mobile. Bikes, Rhinos, Speeders and Jump Packs all help out in this regard. By using drop pods you can make your opponent react to you. A good tactic that Badruck uses is a dreadnought with twin linked heavy flamer and a heavy flamer in a drop pod. Place it near to any 4+ save unit and watch it kill the unit. There are lots of good choices in the codex. Some are cheap and powerful, whirlwinds, vindicators and predators are good for support. Land Speeders and Attack bikes are very versatile. Scouts are a cheap way to hold objectives. Sternguard are awesome. Play some games with different units and see which ones feel good to you. There are lots of different styles and themes you can try.

[Admiral-Badruck]

39 games and all you can come up with is one of my maneuvers and shoot the assault troops and fight the shooters....

From one Red Scorpion to another I find that the marines very much need to be played with the precision of the Eldar or Tau forces however a Good Initiative... High Toughness and great armor make them more than a match for most troops in Assault... Can they take on Krorne Bloodletters? yes if you are in terrain and there are more of you than there are of them you have a fair chance of coming out on top... Orks can not stand up against a marine assault Tactical marines will cut orks down in droves it they can get the charge in on them... the Power Klaw on the Ork nob will hurt but if you win the combat they may brake or if there are a lot of them you they will take more saves...

I think of Marines surgeons they are not meant for massacaring everybody they play they are meant to think and win... every time I have tried to Marine Handel my opposition have lost the game... every time I have run a well layed out plan I have won the game...

Marines fight good on the back foot... Eldar and Tau are very unforgiving if you make a mistake with tau or do not get at least avrage dice rolls you are dead... Marines on the other hand can lose most of a squad and still be in the game...

Marine Assault troops used correctly can take down most troop choices in the game... they do not fair will against a lot of the very Assault oriented choices, but they can take stuff down when you need them to and a tactical squad can hold out for ever especialy a Red Scorpion Tactical squad...

Terminators... need I say more coolest models in the game there is nothing I love more than Terminatores...(in the marine dex that is)

[me_in_japan]

Speaking as someone who plays Eldar, I can only really comment on marines as opposition.

Heres a list of 10 things I find bothersome about marines (i.e. their good points, from your POV)

1) 3+Sv and T4 on everything is a sonovabitch. It means any las weapons are near useless. Even Shuriken weapons aint so hot.

2) As has been pointed out, marines are multipurpose. Yes, a squad of eldar banshees (eldar CC specialists who all have power weapons) will chop em into bits, but even if the banshees charge, the marines are still T4 so the banshees only wound them on a roll of 5+. The marines (standard, tactical marines) wound the eldar on a 3+. This is good for you, bad for me. Against basic grunts like Dire Avengers or (ulp) Eldar guardians, the tac marines will clean up.

3) They have lots and lots of nasty toys. Land speeders are fast wee buggers that can wipe a basic eldar infantry squad off the table in one shot (heavy flamers on fast skimmers? wtf!!?!?!) Land Raiders are nigh on impregnable if the opponent isnt careful, and if you target his anti-armour, you really can find yourself in a situation where he has NOTHING that can possibly hurt it. This is demoralising to say the least.

4) Dont even get me started on Sternguard. The Eldar have a honking great Greater Daemon called an Avatar. Its the incarnation of a god. It shoots fireballs from its magical shapeshifting blade, and is rage incarnate. It has WS10 fer crying out loud. I never, ever use it. Why not? Cos a squad of sternguard can turn it into so much smoking kibble in one round of shooting. Bloody sternguard...

5) Relic Blade : S6 power weapons?!?! WHAT?!?!?!

6) Artificer Armour : 2+ Armour saves!?!?! WHAT?!?!?!

7) Vindicators: I cant understand why folks round here dont use these more. S10 AP2 large blast? what's not to like?

8) Terminators: Its a cliche, but when that squad of termis deep strikes in behind your lines, the poo has really hit the fan. You MUST drop what you are doing and kill them. Which is oft-times problematic, as they are buggersome difficult to shift. And, as badruck points out - they look cool, which is ver' important.

9) Drop Pods. Stupid, Stupid invention. Any other unit in any other army has to seriously weigh up the pros and cons of deep striking. Sure, you might get where you want to go, but theres a far greater chance (double, in fact) that you'll miss completely and land somewhere useless. Or, you might not even come on till turn 5. Or you might miss completely and be removed as a casualty. Not so drop pods. You put dudes in em, they land exactly when you want them to, where you want them to, every time. No other army can do this, and we're all jealous.

10) ...And They Shall Know No Rules: Space Marines seem to ignore every debilitating rule in the game. (see drop pods for an example). The most annoying one is Combat Tactics. Put simply, this rule means that you CANNOT shoot a unit of space marines in the turn you want to charge them. And I mean you cant shoot them AT ALL with ANY unit in you army. Why not? Because if you cause 2 or 3 casualties the marines can choose to auto-fail their break test, run away 2D6 inches (neatly putting them out of charge range) and then auto-rally next turn and wreak havov on the pure schmucks who were about to charge em and are now just getting shot to bits. This makes a huuuuge difference to how you approach combat against marine armies.

So, there's 10 reasons to play marines. Be prepared for eldar players to whinge about it though :p

[Admiral-Badruck]

Now that is a way to build up my love of the marines... Thanks MIJ and I will be sure to take the vindy next time we play...

That said the Vindy for the BA is a fast tank moves 12 and shoots the same gun at you... as the Codex Marine tank does...

As are the Baal Predators... I reckon you will be facing BA or bugs this Sunday let me know how it goes... I reckon you could find 20 things about Blood Angels that make them as good or better than Codex Marines... in fact is there any reason one would play normal Ultra Marines over Blood Angels...

[Primarch]

Now that is a way to build up my love of the marines... Thanks MIJ and I will be sure to take the vindy next time we play...

That said the Vindy for the BA is a fast tank moves 12 and shoots the same gun at you... as the Codex Marine tank does...

As are the Baal Predators... I reckon you will be facing BA or bugs this Sunday let me know how it goes... I reckon you could find 20 things about Blood Angels that make them as good or better than Codex Marines... in fact is there any reason one would play normal Ultra Marines over Blood Angels...

Fast Vindies are nice. I have 1 built and 2 more in boxes. Dunno if they will all be BA though.
As for why to use Codex Marines over Blood Angels, bikes as troops, rhinos/razorbacks for tac squads are cheaper, Land Raiders aren't dedicated transports (so you can start any unit in them), painting red can be troublesome, cheaper vindies, preds and whirlwinds.
Thats not to say I wouldnt use BA. There are lots of reasons to do so.

[Primarch]

Ok, since the Admiral was whining that I graciously used his tactics as an example of something to do with marines....
There are two ways to build a marine army. Pick a theme/chapter and build around it OR take a bit of everything. The first gives you a list that will work well in certain situations, the second gives you a good all round list.
The themes you can work round in Codex Space Marines are based on your choice of HQ.
Fast Assault - Shrike. Great against armies that aren't good in assault, can be good against other marine level armies.
Melta Flamer Spam - Vulkan. Go Melta heavy for killing armour or flamer heavy for roasting tyranids and orks, dont forget your thunder hammers and storm shields (these cost more for blood angels, just remembered).
Bikes - A captain on a bike. - Bikes can be VERY shooty and with T5 are even harder to kill. A kitted out command squad on bikes along with a captain on a bike with a relic blade, storm shield and digital weapons is a beast when it assaults.
Drop pods - doesnt need an HQ - A one trick pony. If your opponent doesnt know how to deal with them you will crush him. If your opponent does know then you will lose.
Sternguard - Pedro - Everyone's favourite marine squad and now it scores.

[Admiral-Badruck]

So Codex Marines lists are the Walmart of the Adeptus Astartes... not seeing the good points yet... it would be one thing if the units were the same as the Codex Space Marines units but they are better and not that much more pricey...