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This might open up a big can of worms but..here goes....

If you are playing Marines of any type and you are going to the trouble of making your own chapter... I say take your time but do not be afraid to make your army codex compatible with each codex of the Marine variety.

Admiral-Badruck wrote:This might open up a big can of worms but..here goes....

If you are playing Marines of any type and you are going to the trouble of making your own chapter... I say take your time but do not be afraid to make your army codex compatible with each codex of the Marine variety.

Yep, no need to limit them to one or the other. Paint them as a non descript chapter and then use whichever codex suits you. As long as every weapon option is clearly modelled and there is no confusion as to what is what I would have no problems with you using any codex you like.

Codex Space Marines
Codex Space Wolves
Codex Blood Angels
Codex Black Templars
Codex Daemonhunters

I think that between those he has more than enough choice and there is potential to crank out any style army he wants. A dreadnought heavy army? Check! An all jump pack army? Check. An all biker army? Check. An all terminator army? Check.

Not to mention all the varriation with in the Codex Space Mairnes what with all the special guys in there.

Admiral-Badruck wrote:This might open up a big can of worms but..here goes....

If you are playing Marines of any type and you are going to the trouble of making your own chapter... I say take your time but do not be afraid to make your army codex compatible with each codex of the Marine variety.

This cant be done, unless you want a very, very generic army. (in which case, why not use dodex:SM?)
Much as I find SM and all their variants much the same to play against, they are NOT the same army. There are several codex books, and they all contain unique rules. Thunderwolf cavalry, yon BA flying thingy, and the Dark Angel chapter master on jetbike are all examples of unique units that you just cant use in any other army.

Frankly, I find the idea of changing your army rules from game to game a bit distasteful. By all means read all the books thoroughly beforehand, to help you choose which one suits you, but once that decision has been made, stick with it. Army selection (i.e. the initial one where youre choosing your chapter etc.) should be a personal choice. Choose a chapter because you like the colours, the theme, the background, but dont choose it because its the killiest set of rules currently available. Rules change, the models you own wont.

As I mentioned in the designy thread, first decide what the look of your chapter is. Sketch it a bit. Do a marine and a vehicle or two. Once youve got a firm idea of "the look", have a look at the miniature range and see which most closely resembles your "look". Look at the codex books and choose the one that most closely matches the style/fluff of the army you just invented. Use the minis that match the look, use the rules that match the background and style. Using a variety of codexes is just going to end with you buying huge amounts of minis to "fill in the gaps" so you can use a squad as BA, DA, SW, basic SM, and so on. You'll save money and have a much clearer chapter identity if you decide on a course and stick to it, come hell or high water. You'll also get more personal satisfaction out of the whole experience.

Finally, I played Eldar for 15 years. I have a laaaaarge collection of them. When Dark Eldar were released a month or so ago, I did NOT decide to proxy my eldar as Dark Eldar because the rules were better. I couldve done - I have the minis for it. Instead, I went out and bought a whole pile of new Dark Eldar models. Why? Cos the rules were good? No, at the time I bought em, i hadnt even read the rules. I bought em cos I like the fluff and love the models.

Repeated army proxying: Just Say No, Kids!

What MiJ said.

Choose an army and stick to it. Having one army to fill all the gaps is a difficult proposition unless you want it to be super-generic or you buy an extra army worth of models to fill the slots.

For example.

Space Marines assault troops can have 1 flamer or plasma pistol per five models in the squad.
Blood Angels can have 1 flamer, melta gun, plasma gun, hand flamer, plasma pistol or melta pistol per 5 models.
Dark Angels can only take plasma pistols, but they can always take 2
Black Templars can take plasma pistols or flamers and can always get 2
Space Wolves can have 1 flamer, melta gun, plasma pistol or plasma gun regardless of size, they can also take a Wulfen
And thats not including the differences between the sergeants.

If you want to build a chapter to suit every codex you have a lot of choices to make and lots of wargear on models you cant use.

Bla Bla Bla guys in power armor painted red... guys in black painted with little crows on the shoulder... Dreads are Dreads Rhinos are Rhinos Land raiders are Land Raiders Land speeders are land speeders Thunder Hawks are Thunder Hawks. ..... you really think I should get a land raider for each army. .. and Drop pods as well that is just a plain waste of money ... I am sure your Eldar Harleez are going to play both ways for both your Eldar and Dark Eldar. .. come on man if you can give me one good reason to buy a different 8000yen model for each marine codex I sure would love to hear it.. heck Drop pods and lets not forget FW Drop pods All cost money and look and play the same... no one says a thing when Mike the trident makes a Brass Scorpion(of KHORNE sworn enemy of pink and purple pervs) purple and adds it to his Slaneesh army.. ...Why cant I add Shrike to my 30k World Eaters..it not like any of the war gear is different It... it is so much easier to make the core the same and add things like Thunder wolves to the mix calling them World Crushers...instead of getting a whole new core army plus your whole army will be unique.. not just a cookie cutter of what every one else has done. Or just do like Prime did for a long tim keep them unpainted then the can be any thing ... WTFrak is the matter with you...MIJ

Unless you are like Prime and want to sink over 200,000 yen in to Space marines then think it over and do the sensible thing...I have about 50,000 worth of Red scorpions... that I can really only use as such if only I would have made them White Scorpions or Green scorpions or yellow scorpions then I could have played them as so many more armies and no one would have batted an eye...

do not fall in to the con buck the system... get a swiss army knife of Marines... there are some very cool ones out there.

I am sure your Eldar Harleez are going to play both ways for both your Eldar and Dark Eldar

yes they are, because the rules, fluff and models are, word for word, identical. They are, in fact, the same harlequins. I do not, however, attempt to use striking scorpions as incubi, or banshees as wyches. The harleys are always harleys. Theres no proxying involved here at all. This is what GW intend us to do.

You seem to be (possibly deliberately) missing the point of both me and prim's posts. We're not saying you should buy one of each space marine army. We're saying you should buy 1 space marine army and use it as 1 space marine army. Don't be greedy and try to have your cake and eat it. Choose a chapter. Play that chapter, and that chapter only. Make a decision, and live with it.

no one says a thing when Mike the trident makes a Brass Scorpion...and adds it to his slaneesh army

I have no problem with Mike's Brass Scorpion because it meets three key conditions that your army proxying does not:

1) It is clearly slaaneshi. No Khorne model is that pink. ever. Thus, theme and "soul" are satisfied.
2) it is only ever a brass scorpion. Mike never says "today, its a dreadnaught". Its always a brass scorp. every time. Thus, ease-of-identification is satisfied.
3) It is perfectly legitimate to use a brass scorp in a slaaneshi army. Its in the rulebook. Thus, not-breaking-the-frickin-rules is satisfied.

Why cant I add Shrike to my 30k World Eaters..

Why cant I use Eldrad Ulthran for my Dark Eldar?

make the core the same and add things like Thunder wolves to the mix calling them World Crushers...

I can call him Edrak Ultan of the Evil Spikey Bitz Kabal, if that would help?

your whole army will be unique.

If I made an army consisting of Baneblades, broadsides, incubi, death company, all led by Ragnar, itd be unique, but that wouldnt make it game-legal.


Please remember that Seb is a new player and does not need fiddly wierd advice about proxying armies and playing "outside the box". He hasnt even found the inside of the box yet. Let him have the same experiences we did. Let him buy an army, paint it, play with it, learn from his mistakes, and enjoy the experience.

Bla bal bal-- still not a peep about land raiders and why I should buy one for each chapter of marines I am taking

Not this personality (of the many that inhabit the Madmirals head) again.

I don't think anyone really minds the odd proxy here or there and/or using "A" marine models as "B" marine models, especially if you are just getting into the hobby. Just as long as your opponent knows what is what, as the mighty Spevna said.

@the Madmiral : Are you really advocating, mixing and matching codicies as one sees fit? If someone were to use Captain Shrike + Blood Angels + Thunderwolves in the same basic army (that's 3 codices right there folks) then they would be straying dangerously close to complete tool territory. It's cool in Apocalypse, because it's part of the game but a pretty poor form in any other situation. Please tell me that you really meant using the models not three different sets of rules for an army that already exists in a 4th completely different codex?

P.S. Whazzup with dissing the Scorp' in a thread that has nothing to do with it? You do realize, of course, that it is a totally legitimate unit for any Chaos Space Marine army in an Apocalypse game, unlike what you seem to be suggesting? You need not field a single Khorne unit to have one in your army. You also remember that it has Daemonettes dancing over it and the skull of it's previous owner mounted front and centre to show my loathing for all things Khorney. right?

Only power gamer think in terms of game legal or not..