To comp or not to comp, that is the question.

[The Other Dave]

I think that this whole conversation sort of touches on one problem with the GW-game tourney scene - the fact that the games used for them are schizophrenic at best about the whole "how the game should be played" thing. On the one hand, you've got people (mostly old-guard mucky-mucks) at the company who see their games as part of a hobby the purpose of which should be creating cool, flavorful, beautifully-painted armies, playing with friends, trying out fun stuff, fiddling around with fluff, playing scenario-based games without worrying about points costs, and all that kind of good stuff. On the other hand and at the same time, the company does a lot to support and champion high-stakes win-at-all-costs tournament play, which is fundamentally antithetical to the armchair, port-and-cigars style of play in my previous sentence. The minute they choose one or the other, and either abolish tournament play and codexes and point costs altogether, or start producing rigorously-designed, rigorously-playtested codexes that are balanced both "externally" (against all existing codexes) and "internally" (ensuring that the army list functions as a coherent whole without any "mandatory" units or any "garbage" units), the minute that happens, the two sides of the comp debate will be able to stop talking past each other - because that's always what it comes down to: people on different positions along the "play the fluff" and "play the list" spectrum, who are speaking from fundamentally different and (IMO, anyway) fundamentally irreconcilable positions.*

Of course, that's never going to happen.

*(Can you spot the excluded middle? Yeah, you could have both rigorously-tested codexes and fluffy play. But I'm not holding my breath.)

(It's a basic belief of mine that, as much as GW likes to talk as though there is, there isn't really any single thing you could call the "wargaming hobby", and that realizing that different folks play for often very different - and sometimes, as I say, incompatible - reasons, would lead to a lot fewer heated arguments at gaming stores - and on internet message boards, heh.)

[Admiral-Badruck]

about the Gort list I am keen but one can not take a grot list because of the FOC

full troops 180 grotz is at most still under 800 points...

Killer Kanz you may say...9 of them are under 400 points

there are no HQs for grotz

and if you could take Buggies then you may have close to 1500 points counting it as Grotz but it does not work as far as grotz getting it done at a tournament...

They certainly would not be good if every one there knew you were taking them... so thanks for the offer and someday we may see a grot army at a tournament but it will have to be a a bit more of a chance encounter...

[Mike the Pike]

The Daves both make interesting points,as does Prim. Cabin Boy 2nd Class Badruck not so much.

One thing we are all forgetting is that Oh-bomb is not a GW grand tournament. Unless I'm very much mistaken (which would be a first ) it is a small local tournament amongst players in a very small gaming community that is still trying to grow. If it were the geek equivalent of the Masters, Wimbledon etc then I probably agree with M_i_J and (gulp) the Admiral, but sad to say it isn't.

As for pro-tennis, the seeding system deliberately makes it harder for lower ranked players to progress as they are intentionally paired against higher ranked players.

[Primarch]

about the Gort list I am keen but one can not take a grot list because of the FOC

full troops 180 grotz is at most still under 800 points...

Killer Kanz you may say...9 of them are under 400 points

there are no HQs for grotz

and if you could take Buggies then you may have close to 1500 points counting it as Grotz but it does not work as far as grotz getting it done at a tournament...

They certainly would not be good if every one there knew you were taking them... so thanks for the offer and someday we may see a grot army at a tournament but it will have to be a a bit more of a chance encounter...

It wasnt an offer. If you dont have a grot army you aint playing.

[Mike the Pike]

Golf analogy time:

Tiger Woods is probably the greatest golfer the world has ever seen (and an obvious Slaanesh worshipper). However even the mighty Mr. Woods would find it hard to win with Woods that were actually made of wood rather the latest tungsten-carbon-fibre super clubs just because the Organizers wouldn't let him use use them.

Likewise he would probably win fewer tournies if he played with his Dad's old clubs just because he felt so attached to them and didn't want Nike's latest creations.

However, with a a few strokes handicap, his opponents would have to bring their 'A' game to beat him.

[Mike the Pike]

Quick Question: Had anyone even heard of Admiral Badruck before the Orks got their shiny new/hard codex? I do remember a Tau player with a similar name but I think he was run over by a mega armoured Nob Biker.

@Badruck(s): I'm sure no-one would mind if you took one or two Orks to fill out the FOC and get you over the 1500pts barrier. Go on, you know you want to. It would be so fluffy and a lot of fun to play too. As you said you prefer such armies.

[Primarch]

Quick Question: Had anyone even heard of Admiral Badruck before the Orks got their shiny new/hard codex? I do remember a Tau player with a similar name but I think he was run over by a mega armoured Nob Biker.

I seem to recall a Shas'o Los'er if thats who you're talking about?

[Admiral-Badruck]

I have played Orks since I got it to the game back in RT Days... I like orks... Like Tau... Beaky has a Dark angel in his picture but you will not see him playing Dark angles... what does he play Space Dogs the hated enemy of the Dark Angels... hummmm seem like a but of trash talk has hoped back up... I guess we should call a truce and stay on topic...

I think Mike has convinced me that comp may have a place in a tournament of 40k... but think it would be best to rank players more than the armies... but to do that we would need to keep track of every game played... not really and option...

As I have said before there should be a bit of Comp for FW units... but Standard Codex lists... not so much..finally if comp is going to be put in place one can take it or leave it if it bothers someone that much then they are not forced to come to the event.. they could always do something else with their time... like play card games or start a bug collection... I am not going to let comp get me down even though I do not think is needed to make an event fun...