Nurgle Conversion

[Admiral-Badruck]

I think there are 4 reason to Kit bash / Scratch build..

1 the GW line does not make the model you want to but has rules for it just the same...

2 The GW sucks ass and you want one that fits your Idea for the army..

3 you just like trying to build stuff

4 you just do not want to give GW anymore of your cash..

[me_in_japan]

I think there are 4 reason to Kit bash / Scratch build..

1 the GW line does not make the model you want to but has rules for it just the same...

2 The GW sucks ass and you want one that fits your Idea for the army..

3 you just like trying to build stuff

4 you just do not want to give GW anymore of your cash..

These are all good reasons, and I'm particularly fond of reason #4 as it applies to Forge World. Kitbashing a grot would be silly, as theyre not that pricey and the amount of effort required would be far greater than the amount of paid work required to earn the money needed to buy a grot. However, if one is kitbashing, say, a Tau Manta, then you could quite easily come out ahead in terms of effort vs cash. That said, point #3 can sometimes outweigh any of the others.

BUT,

I still think what I said before stands. If you are just making a model as a display piece or a means of creative expression then it doesnt really matter what it looks like. Do what you like. However, if you plan on using it as a gaming piece then you have to consider your opponent, and that means making everything clear, neat and easily recognisable, as he is doing you a favour by letting you use it at all.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I think there are 4 reason to Kit bash / Scratch build..


I still think what I said before stands. If you are just making a model as a display piece or a means of creative expression then it doesnt really matter what it looks like. Do what you like. However, if you plan on using it as a gaming piece then you have to consider your opponent, and that means making everything clear, neat and easily recognisable, as he is doing you a favour by letting you use it at all.

Really are you kidding me???... is it that big of a deal where you have to say I want to use this model I spent 12 hours drawing 15 hours building out of plastic card and bitz from assorted model kits...modifying to fit WYSIWYG.. and finally painting... so now do me the favor of letting me play it even though GW does not make a model for it and most-likely never will... or the model they have is ugly and does not really fit the description/ theme of my army.

I think the builder/ Kit-basher is doing the world a favor building a good looking representation of a game piece that may otherwise be over looked... it is just my opinion but at what point did are any games rule bing broken when some one makes a Model tank out of cardboard that is exactly he right size and shape as the GW model and looks more like what it is supposed to be...

are you saying that if I take the boar boyz models from FB give them all the gubbinz to make them Cybores and say these are Nob Bikers that I am some how breaking the rules of the game??

. I know that if someone showed up with a conversion or even a scratch built thunder wolf it could look better than the GW model (hell how could it look worse) I would be very happy to play against that over the current model...

And if we are looking a Apoc I say who cares what you can build for that game... the more crazy things get the better... and if one is really concerned about models bing pure GW... well I think that is just plain silly... but thy can alway state before the game starts...

:A-Badruck steps off his soap box and goes back to work on some scratch built killer Kanz:

[me_in_japan]

as i said, if the scratch build is easily recognisable as such then most all opponents would be happy to let you use them. And certainly, I'd think they were being a prat if they didnt. The fact remains though that it's their call (or the tourney organiser's). It doesnt matter if you've been slaving away for twenty years to produce the finest miniature based work of art, which in your eyes transcends all concepts of beauty and aesthetic ideals, becoming truly a representation of Greatness in its purest form. If your opponent can't tell that it's a rhino with a hunter killer upgrade at a glance, he is perfectly within his rights to say "sorry chief. buy the model like everyone else does."

If GW don't make a model so you make your own, then the same applies - your opponent should still be able to easily recognise what it is.

I have no problem with scratch building. As you know I do it myself, and I think it adds a great deal to the hobby, but I think it's important to keep the appeal of building, painting and converting (i.e. the aesthetic part of the hobby) separate from how a model or mini plays in game. The former is a purely personal thing, and it follows that you can do what you like there. The latter involves your opponent. I always assume my opponent has spent as much time and effort on his army as i have and wants to win as much as I do, so if I'm going to do something outwith the bounds of "normal" play (i.e. full GW minis based army, no FW stuff.) I always check with him that it's ok. This is done as a courtesy to him, and as such if he says "no, its not ok" then I have to abide by his decision. Thats the risk you run by putting aesthetics (i.e. "I dont like the GW model so ill make my own") over gaming. As a comparison, I'd hold up Stu, who doesnt go in for the arty side of things half so much as he does the gamey side. As such, he prefers to buy the expensive official GW models rather than scratch build his own. That doesnt make him daft, it just means he has a different set of values to you or I.

[Primarch]

are you saying that if I take the boar boyz models from FB give them all the gubbinz to make them Cybores and say these are Nob Bikers that I am some how breaking the rules of the game??

Then those would be conversions, not scratch builds.

Anyhoo, I think that so long as models meet the following guidelines then no-one should refuse to play them.
A) They are roughly the right size. (No battlewagons that are bigger than baneblades and which offer line of sight across the board. )
B) You can clearly see what they are armed with. If you're going to the effort of building your own model, give it the right guns, you really have no excuse.
C) The model is finished, it doesn't matter if its painted or not. If you are using real models, you normally turn up with a finished, glued together model. (except for crew and stuff which may need painting before attaching). Putting down two tracks and a gun barrel does not work for real models, proxies or scratch builds.

Going back to my original statement. Dave's rhino and raider look ok, but I do think that they would look better with more real parts added to them.

[me_in_japan]

Going back to my original statement. Dave's rhino and raider look ok, but I do think that they would look better with more real parts added to them.

]

really? what would you suggest? I am genuinely interested here, not offended or anything. I'm not really all that up on tanks in general, and those were my first foray into building things with tracks. You, otoh, are the tank-meister. What would you recommend for added realism? (specifics would be very helpful.)

[Primarch]

really? what would you suggest? I am genuinely interested here, not offended or anything. I'm not really all that up on tanks in general, and those were my first foray into building things with tracks. You, otoh, are the tank-meister. What would you recommend for added realism? (specifics would be very helpful.)

Well, looking at the pictures I took of your Land Raider (and bear in mind that the picture isn't that large and the quality ain't so great), I think that the tracks look rather smooth, compared to the regular deep treads on the plastic models, but that could just be the quality of the picture I took not showing details. The front and top hulls are also rather bare. Some grills, vents or even just some little raised notches would help break it up a bit. A nice big Icon on the top of the assault ramp would also look good.

I'm holding a real land rader in my hands as I write this, and the central part of the hull has no flat open spaces bigger than a square cm on it all the way along.

[me_in_japan]

hmmn. all valid comments, I reckon. I'll have to take a good long look at a landy next time I see one. Indentations like grilles, vents and tread breaks are the most difficult thing to do on a scratch build. Still, it's something to aim for next time. Cheers for the advice

[Spevna]

Why is it "their call" if I can use my own models?

[Admiral-Badruck]

Going back to my original statement. Dave's rhino and raider look ok, but I do think that they would look better with more real parts added to them.

]

really? what would you suggest? I am genuinely interested here, not offended or anything. I'm not really all that up on tanks in general, and those were my first foray into building things with tracks. You, otoh, are the tank-meister. What would you recommend for added realism? (specifics would be very helpful.)

Dave I think the landraider looks fine as it is man I really think any more and it would have been too busy. Can more details be added on to a model sure but would they make the work look any better? Not always some times less is more