Do you like GW Paints? Yes? Sorry.....

[Admiral-Badruck]

I know just what yo mean man I was using black paint. It was not pretty black snot FTW for anyone keen on air brushing a good mask is really a must.


BTW
Devlinmud mud is worst thing to ever happen to the hobby.

[Mike the Pike]

devlinmud mud is worst thing to ever happen to the hobby.

Care to explain why?

[me_in_japan]

Not sure why, but the admiral, normally such an amenable chap, seems to have focussed all his hatred in life towards devlan mud. He's never really explained why, but I see it as being fairly harmless. Could be worse - could be puppies or something...

[Admiral-Badruck]

MIJ knows best in this instant. Devlinmud mud is my redheaded step child. I hate it for no other reason than it is a good product that is way over used. I once heard it called liquid skill. This never sat well with me mostly because I figured skill should be honed and earned. It should be noted that I love the other washes and use them quite happily. When I want to dislike something I really do not need a reason. I as Justin knows I have been developing a new found hatred for chaos black. I have vowed never to use it again.

So there are two paint pots that I will never buy again just because I decided I do not like them. Chaos Black and devlinmud mud. May bothe be disscontinued.

[AndrewGPaul]

Surely it's the end result - the painted miniature - that matters? How you achieve that end result is irrelevant. If you want to spend hours painstakingly layering and blending a miniature to end up with the same result as twenty minutes with a pot of Devlan Mud gives you, that doesn't make you a better painter - it makes you a fool.

Which is different to saying that Devlan Mud will somehow make crap paint jobs better - it won't magically cover up the bits where you "went over the lines" or painted wonky stripes.

I find the GW washes improved my painting, by making shading and tinting much easier.

As for licking paint, Titillating Pink was by far the worst. No idea what was in that - it must have been some sort of alcohol base, because no other GW paint ever smelled anything like it.

[job]

I love Devlon Mud, I have yet to ingest any of it. On the models it really does the job, although it has made me lazier and arrested the development of my painting skills. I've been slow to develop mixing my own washes and layering washes and highlights. So, I could agree partially with the Admiral.

If you guys stand by the habit of brush licking I might start with the Scorched Brown. Mmm... chocolate.

[Primarch]

You mean we shouldn't drink Devlan Mud? When I heard that it was "liquid skill" I started doing shots of it. That explains why my painting hasn't improved then.
Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with any of the washes, brown is just the most common colour for shading things. Complaining that it detracts from your skills as a painter is like saying that using citadel minis detracts from your skills as a sculptor. It all comes down to how much effort you feel is necessary.
I think that the main issue with DM is that when it was first released some people just covered all their models in it and called it a day. In that regard I feel that Badruck has a point, but when I need to shade some Dark Angel's robes or dirty up the treads on some tank tracks, I fail to see why it is even an issue. Nobody says anything if I wash chainmail with Badab Black, or gold chains with Gryphonne Sepia. Used as a tool, Devlan Mue is fine. Used as a painting method, it isn't that great and you're better off using a dip.

Back on topic, maybe the changes to the GW paint range is to do with the smell/taste? Strawberry Blood Red? Mint Hawk Turquoise? Sounds like a winner to me.

[me_in_japan]

I use devlan mud all the time, as do pretty much all folks on CMoN, up to and including GD winners, so to say it stunts your painting is daft. It's not intended as an all-over wash. It's a tint to be added to select parts of minis to change how the colours come through. Baal Red is v.g. on noses and elbows, Dev mud is v.g. on metallics. You wouldn't use dev mud on noses and elbows, and you wouldnt use baal red on a bolter muzzle. (well, you could, but then you'd have pink bolters and dirty noses.) The washes range also work very well to smooth transitions between layers (i.e. layer using regular paints, feathering/wet blending or what have you, and then go over the whole shebang with a wash.) Where the citadel washes shine over almost everything else (bar oils) is their consistency - they tend not to puddle, theyre at just the right thickness to apply from the bottle, and they mix well with other paints (should you wish to do such a thing). That is why dev mud is great.

I suspect the new citadel paints will be pretty good, actually. They have been up to now, and I dont see why that should change. It's all hypothetical anyway - GW still refuse to sell them to me at a respectable price, so it doesnt matter if you can wave a mini over an open pot and the paint magically jumps onto the mini itself. Until they change their asshattery stance, I'm sticking with Vallejo, thankyouverymuch.

it has made me lazier and arrested the development of my painting skills.

ahah, but nae. The above should read "it has made it easier for me to get quick results, and I have chosen to follow the path of least resistance." The fault (if it is a fault) doesnt lie with dev mud, but in how you choose to use it. I say "you" but tbh you're hardly alone - lotsa folk over-use simple techniques in the interests of getting the job done quickly. In fact, that in itself is an important skill - knowing what techniques to use to achieve what level of paint job. If someone wants to paint their entire fantasy skaven army to a GD winning standard, then good luck to em, but they can come play me in about 25 years when theyre done. If someone (ToD, fr example) chooses to dip his entire night gobbo army then I say more power to him, and hey - he has a fully painted army, and he has it NOW. (I'll admit I fall into camp number 1, if I'm honest. I'm a painter who games, rather than vice versa.)

[Konrad]

Back OT...

This pick has been floating round the internets for a while now.



I was hoping for a move to Vallejo-style dropper bottles.
Just as long as they don't get rid of Devlan Mud!

Foundation, Base, Layer. So maybe they will be trying to sell a 3 step painting process. "1. Paint it Foundation Macharite Red. 2. Base it Blood Angels Red. 3. Layer on highlights of Whatever it's called Orange."

Only thing for sure is that the pots will be smaller and cost more.

[job]

Boy, say you even agree with Badruck at your peril!

@the Admiral: you were right man they come down on you like a group of deputies finding an inmate out of his cell.

Overall I can't argue with you because you wrote exactly what I was writing. I found DevMud did a wonderful job at first and I stopped working on washing for some time. It was both a great entry into this part of painting but it also allowed me to cut a corner in a sense. Without the wash I would have work on washing with more effort to get similar results.

In the end I'm going to keep using th wash as long as they manufacture it. Heck if they say ingesting a bottle will help my painting skills too, I'll do that.