Question regarding future NH events and armylists

[Primarch]

@Danguinius - Surely there are powerful codexes and some not so powerful codexes though? I am not looking at this as a way of adding balance to the game as it is inherently unbalanced anyway. As for 6th levelling the playing field, our winners this year used Tau and Dark Angels (old and underpowered), Tyranids (internet wisdom says they are useless) and Blood Angels (some people always bring the most powerful army to a tournament )
Since some folks have a tendency to build a new force for each event, I was looking at the IA lists and maybe fandexes as a way of offering more variety and allowing folks to try something different rather than whinging about the current rules. If the 40K rules were awful, no-one would play regardless of what was allowed.
Your point about fandexes being overpowered in some cases is true though, at least from what I have seen. Then again some of the official books allow stupid powergaming rules. Its all a matter of trusting people not to bring a Mephiston/Dante tag team of doom.

Anyway, nothing is decided or set in stone yet. Plenty more time to debate it.

[me_in_japan]

I honestly don't think people would bring overpowered lists if they were allowed to bring IA stuff. Most IA stuff is underpowered (with some exceptions, granted). The opportunity is there to power game whether IA is allowed or not. Razorback spam/leaf blower lists don't need IA help. I reckon letting folks use IA just allows us to play with some of our cooler models. I have a ton of cool FW stuff for my eldar that I'd love to use, and none of it even compares to the nastiness of yon melta-proof flying shoebox the GK and BA get.

I say IA - good
Fan dex - bad

Ps - what happened to Job's last post? I have to say I agreed with it. Stick to yer guns, Job sometimes you can be right even if folks aren't happy about it

[Danguinius]

Okay then, what about the IA Dread Drop Pod that let`s Dreads assault after they deepstrike? I agree, MOST IA stuff is underpowered, but SOME of it is "off-the-wall-WTF? broken".

Note, I`m also playing the Devil`s advocate here (much in the same way Prim challenged us to "break" the missions he offered before Nagoyahammer). Just saying, "Well, why not?" without actually thinking through what could actually go horribly wrong is something no one wants, I`m sure. I also have lots of Forgeworld stuff that I`d love to field. But, I usually just use it in Apocalypse. I`ll add that if IA stuff or fan dex stuff is allowed, it should all be painted to a high standard if used at Nagoyahammer. Just my two yen.

Danguinius

[ashmie]

Is there anyway you can have the tournament as regular codex and then on the second day have 3 tables. One basic codex 40k, one fan lists and one IA. That way if people want to bring their own homemade lists they will at least have someone else to go up against with the same ideas. The only downside to allowing fanlists and IA is that it might put off the new players or people that don't have those kind of lists.
TBH I haven't played 40k since last Summer when I was crushed by a magic hammer army. Space Wolves I think it was with their huge ship. This was the regular Space Wolf codex as far as I could make out so perhaps it doesn't matter, codex or non codex it's never balanced with stilton cheese. The thing landed in the middle of the board and deployed troops and had so many guns my whole army got wiped in a few turns. I couldn't break it or beat it's armour. It was a long haul and made me think twice about deploying my ulramarines again.
I do like 40k when it's matched well. The big boys should play with the big boys and the beginners with the beginners. I suppose we have only a handful of players so we need to agree on one set of rules for everyone, depending on numbers.

[job]

@ MiJ: thanks, I'm glad you liked the thoughts.

But as I thought about it, I didn't want to have Badruck take it the wrong way. I want him to know I'm supportive of his project, even excited, so I don't want any bad feelings over a misinterpretation. That said I hope for the best and I hope Badruck keeps an open mind about things rather then label anyone.

BTW, did anyone notice the delete button seems to be missing.

[me_in_japan]

I can see the delete button beside the "edit" button on everyone's posts, but maybe that's cos I'm a mod.

Prim?

[me_in_japan]

re: acceptablity of non codex materials.

basically, as my sig quote so wisely says, if a player is of a mind to smother the table top in cheese then they can do it regardless of the availability or otherwise of IA/fandex stuff. Thus, allowing or disallowing these lists will not affect the fairness/fun factor of the tourney. It's beholden upon the players themselves to bring a list that will be fun for their opponent. Allowing IA means that players who want to use the models can, and if people dont want to use them then they dont need to.

The "some people cant get access to IA rules" argument no longer stands, as starting a while back GW pulled the J-codecii from their website and now sell books just like they do to us English speakers. That has levelled the playing field so far as IA is concerned.

e.g.
I dont know much at all about the new crons. How do I find out? I either buy the book or obtain it from other, more, shall we say "torrential" sources.
I dont know much about eldar corsairs. How do I find out? same as I would with the crons.

Yes, I agree that there is a language barrier, but if a Japanese player wanted to find out what an IA rule means, all he has to do is googletrans it. That's what I do for J-stuff all the time. And lets face it - people buy FW stuff cos it looks cool, and worry about the rules later.

Thus, in conclusion, yaddayadda, I reckon IA is fine and wont cause any problems that arent already inherent in 40k anyway.

I rest my case, m'lud

[Primarch]

On delete buttons - everyone besides the mods and myself should have the same access. I dont think any non-mods should have access to a delete button, but it seems that some do (or did) and some dont. I have no idea why there is any difference, nor do I have any clue as to why it happened. There haven't been any changes to the site to my knowledge.
In other words #shrug#.

[Tenorikuma]

@MIJ: Regarding Japanese rules, GW still offers free PDF downloads of all codices that don't have print versions yet. That even includes the Sisters of Battle codex published only in White Dwarf.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... =community

So although I personally wouldn't mind playing someone using Forgeworld models and rules in a tournament (I might even welcome it so I can enjoy the variety of it), I still think that sticking to GW codices maintains a more even playing field — which is mainly just a concern for tournaments, and not for free play or casual events. (Free play would be a great time to show off a home-brewed codex as well.)

[Admiral-Badruck]

For any one that thinks all fan dexies are broken I want to see an honest show of hands.

Who has played against one.

If you haven played aginast one what the potatoes are you talking about... Befor anyone condenms something they have not played against.

The should consider the following.

Why would some one go to all that trouble just to win when they could easly take buy the Gknights codex and drop a crazy brutal army build on someones head.

The last three years i have taken armis that I liked to Nagoya hammer. To be quite honest I do not think I have ever tried to power game. I have just played for fun.

I have never thought of the games at Nagoya Hammer as competitive sorry just has not crossed my mind I wanted to take fun stuff and try to win. The same would be true with a fan dex written by me.

I have no idea what job said in his post it it was against fandexes I do not blame him any more than the rest of you nay sayers. I plan to play for fun. If I win I know and you will know it will not be because of my dex. It will be because I got extreem ly lucky. Trust me if codex grot revolutionaries is over powered in any way. I will not be playing it....