Kill Team 2021

[The Other Dave]

The grammar is ambiguous, but basically there are two possible readings, right?

A: ((All friendly Tempestus Scion operatives and all friendly Guardsman operatives) within 6" of a friendly Guardsman sergeant) are issued that order.

or

B: (All friendly Tempestus Scion operatives) and (all friendly Guardsman operatives within 6" of a friendly Guardsman sergeant) are issued that order.

In case A, as you say, an all-Scion force would be literally incapable of ever being given orders (and would have no playable Strategic Ploys and a leader with a useless special ability), while in case B, Scions would always get them and Guardsmen would get them if they're close to a sergeant. Personally I think the combination of the fact that reading A means your elite operatives can't receive orders / renders the Tempestor's ability useless, and the careful repetition of "all friendly operatives" (i.e., it's not "all friendly Imperial Guard operatives within 6" of a friendly Guardsman sergeant") shows pretty clearly what the intent is. Could've been written more clearly ("All friendly Guardsman operatives within 6" of a friendly Guardsman sergeant and all friendly Tempestus Scion operatives"), but I think it's pretty fair in an ambiguous case to take the reading that makes sense.

[Mattb]

B: (All friendly Tempestus Scion operatives) and (all friendly Guardsman operatives within 6" of a friendly Guardsman sergeant) are issued that order.

Oh I see! Yes, you're right, I definitely missed that. Thankyou again for clarifying.

I guess my Scion killteam is back on the menu.

[Karantu]

I agree with Dave and I think that reading B is probably how it is intended to work and would be happy with you playing it as so. Some proof-reading or a day 1 FAQ could've helped but here we are.

[Primarch]

Option A is really pushing it though.
If it had been "All friendly Scion and guardsman operatives", I'd conceed the point, but the extra use of 'operatives' and 'all' is totally unnecessary if they want to say that only guard sergeants can issue orders.

It makes thematic sense that the elite special forces don't need an NCO shouting at them, they have better communication equipment and better training.
Can you imagine if Delta Force or the SAS had to drag along some regular grunts just so their CO would tell them what to do?

It would also make the Scion specific ability useless if you had picked only Scions.

Also, in 40K can sergeants even issue orders?

"All friendly Guardsman operatives within 6" of a friendly Guardsman sergeant and all friendly Tempestus Scion operatives"

If you are going with option A's reading, for a guardsman to receive an order, they'd need to be within 6" of their sarge and within 6" of all the scions in the force.

[Karantu]

@Dave
Here's the only loyalist transfer sheet I seem to have left. You can have the Space Marine half if you'd like.


And here are my remaining 30k Space Marine bits for anyone who's interested. The only useful things I can pick out are the combi-melta, Power Fists, Lightning Claws, and Power Sword. There's also a bunch of bolters, shoulder pads, and backpacks but I doubt anyone needs those. Also, I have no idea what with all the combat knives. Was I supposed to use those?

I have 3 of those sprues in total. So if anyone wants anything from them let me know.


Edit: In case someone needs an extra Intercessor for a Kill Team. Or even a tiny pot of one of the random paints.

[The Other Dave]

I agree with Dave and I think that reading B is probably how it is intended to work and would be happy with you playing it as so. Some proof-reading or a day 1 FAQ could've helped but here we are.

It's the kind of grammar that has led to real-life contract disputes, so I think it comes down more to the built-in hard-to-rectify ambiguities of English than proof-reading per se.

(Actually in general I'm impressed with the technical writing in the KT rules - you can tell they've gone out of their way to be precise and consistent.)

[Primarch]

@Dave
Here's the only loyalist transfer sheet I seem to have left. You can have the Space Marine half if you'd like.


And here are my remaining 30k Space Marine bits for anyone who's interested. The only useful things I can pick out are the combi-melta, Power Fists, Lightning Claws, and Power Sword. There's also a bunch of bolters, shoulder pads, and backpacks but I doubt anyone needs those. Also, I have no idea what with all the combat knives. Was I supposed to use those?

The combi weapons need the basic gun frame to work, which doesn't appear to be on the sprues you have shown. I will very happily take the shoulder pads off your hands though.
The combat knives are supposed to be attached to the lower exhaust vents on the marines' backpacks.
In 30K marines can (if you pay points) have a bolter, a pistol and a close combat weapon.

[Karantu]

The combi weapons need the basic gun frame to work, which doesn't appear to be on the sprues you have shown. I will very happily take the shoulder pads off your hands though.
The combat knives are supposed to be attached to the lower exhaust vents on the marines' backpacks.
In 30K marines can (if you pay points) have a bolter, a pistol and a close combat weapon.

There was only 1 combi-weapon frame per sprue which I used to give my 3 squad leaders combi-plasma so the leftovers would be for kitbashes if anything. I'll bring the shoulder pads with me the next time I go to a game day then.
Also here's another sprue I missed. I have 3 sets of this too which has that fancy helmet with the plume bit.

[Primarch]

If you're happy to part with them, I'll take any heads, backpacks, torsos, bolt pistols, chain/power swords too.

[Karantu]

If you're happy to part with them, I'll take any heads, backpacks, torsos, bolt pistols, chain/power swords too.

If you're going to use them in the relatively near future (which given your 30k project its sounds like you are) and not just have them sitting around in a box like I do then sure. I would like to prioritize giving them to someone who's planning to use them if possible after all.