Epic in 2022: Horus Heresy &c.

[Primarch]

It's like GW read my wishlist for new plastic models and made them all, but tiny!

The expansion box contents all look cool, 4 of each model should cover most army builds, and if you do need more of a particular unit, 3D printing is always an option.

Tentatively, I'm interested in this as 2nd ed. Space Marine was my game of choice way back in the mists of time. But with this and The Old World both coming this year, along with some of those HH minis in the right scale towards the end of the year, I have to admit that my finances will be a bit stretched. So many cool things, so little cash.

[The Other Dave]

I definitely know the feeling! At least this does synchronize nicely for me with Underworlds' new "you don't actually have to buy everything" model.

[The Other Dave]

Rules overview:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... ame-plays/

So it's basically 2e straight-up, down to no longer splitting weapons into AT and AP types (although traits seem to model that to some degree or another), and having no suppression or battlefield friction (although there is a rally phase, which suggests some kind of morale rules). Which, eh, I'm sad to see those concepts go, but 2e was fun and I'm sure this will be. Army selection looks basically like "a formation is a pre-10th-edition 40K army force org chart" which has lots of room for fun.

[Primarch]

2nd ed. was, IMHO, the best version of Epic. I wonder if they will bring back the Titan hit location cards and the "Up/Down, Left/Right" dice? That was a fun mechanic.
It sounds like morale will just be a straight up test once you lose a certain number of minis and then you fall back. There could be more nuance to it than that though.
Rules-wise it all sounds great, and if you don't like them, there's nothing stopping you from switching back to an older rule-set with your shiny new models.

[The Other Dave]

Oh, I'll give it a go! I did enjoy 2e back in the day - the only thing that really makes me put an eyebrow up is keeping the model-on-model 2d6 roll-off for close combat resolution, which I remember taking a long time to resolve. Even 40K doesn't resolve close combat model-on-model any more!

I'm going to keep away from suggesting using anything but the rules they give us, though, much as my fingers will no doubt be twitching - "network externalities," "the perfect is the enemy of the good" and all that. I'd rather have a (relative) bunch of people playing a pretty good game than be (once again) all alone wanting to play what I feel is a better one.

[Primarch]

The 2d6 CAF thing can be fast rolled if you have multiple pairs of dice in different colours. It is definitely fiddly but not impossible.

I saw in discussions elsewhere that the big tanks like Baneblades will come in packs of 4, but (according to rumours) can be taken in squads of up to 6.

[The Other Dave]

The obvious solution being buying three boxes and fielding 2 units of 6! I fail to see a problem here.

More seriously, my reading was that 6 was maximum unit size, plus you'll probably want to build variants and so on. Plus they'll presumably also make a box with the Shadowsword hull and you might want to mix and match.

[The Other Dave]

Rules previews for Marines:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... -astartes/

My thoughts:

Cards with detachment-building info on one side and unit rules on the other is a verra nice idea.

It's going to be hard to get used to thinkin in inches in Epic. I looked at the Kratos, thought "that range looks pretty short," then did some math on my fingers to see the main weapon's range is about 50cm, where I'd expect 45 or 60 in Armageddon, so OK.

I'm going to have to ask Jus to print out a few more infantry odds and ends for my Death Guard to convert my Armageddon-legal formations (where the commander is part of the formation and not a whole extra stand of infantry) to 2e-legal ones (where it isn't, and is). Plus a second Fellblade. (This is not a gripe, any excuse to get and paint new stuff really.)

I hate to harp on combat resolution, but SMDH at the WE Legion rule (reroll one of your dice whenever you make a Fight roll). "Minimum result on combat rolls is 4" or suchlike would have almost the same effect and cut way down on reroll time.

[Primarch]

Yeah, I saw the WE legion rule and had a similar response. A simple +1CAF would have been much easier to deal with.

[The Other Dave]

Yeah, I looked it up and mathematically that's almost exactly what it is. (Technically it's +0.972 to your rolls on average. Not quite, of course, since the calculations in that article assume you must reroll the lowest die, and in practice you probably wouldn't unless it was less than 4 or you were losing, but still.)