COLOSSALS

[AndrewGPaul]

Primarily, the background. The plot ground to a standstill on the announcement of Mk2, and there was nothing new for close to two years. In addition, the "gamely" focus of the whole thing is an approach I don't like. With Warhammer, 40k and Infinity, the main emphasis is about refighting "actual" events in the settings. In Warmachine and Hordes, that's really secondary to the game - at least that's how I see it. It's in things like Page 5 and the fact that every faction has the same things (frankly I'm surprised that they've kept light 'jacks out of the Khador army) .

The recent miniature designs haven't interested me, either. Some interesting ideas with boring execution. The Menoth battle engine in particular, although the Khador one isn't great either.

[Danguinius]

@AGP,
Wow! Really?! Did you write all of that with your sarcasm voice? People can choose to like or not like the steampunk setting, but at least WMH fluff/stories progress. New technology and new developments are introduced. Mind you, it is a bit of a comic book type of progression (key characters are never killed unless they can be reborn or regenerated in some way), but look at what PP is doing here: they are actually making colossals. Would GW ever release Primarch models/rules...or Sigmar...or Nagash (again)?

Also, you can`t keep a straight face and claim the WMH factions are becoming too similar; do you think they play similarly? Do you think there is little if any difference between playing Legion and Khador? So what if all the factions recieved battle engines; are they similar? Again, how about comparing say...the Trollblood Battle engine and the Retribution of Scyrah one...do you think they are similar? Conversely, WHF has made all of thea rmies the same: all now have monstrous infantry, a dragon (or such large rideable creature), a huge kit that fits on chariot are larger bases, etc. And we all know how "unique" 40K has become with transports, power armor and melta guns.

You don`t like anything PP has done in the last two years? Whaa...? You mean, you don`t like mkII? That pretty much makes you Will Smith in "I Am Legend"; you are the last man on earth...to think PP hasn`t improved its main games in the last two years. I think PPs games have caught fire in the last two years and there are plenty of reasons for this phenomenon. I was a die-hard GW fanboy and resisted PP for a long time, but after restarting WMH in mkII and watching 40K become an arms race automatically won by the latest reased codex, I couldn`t ignore the obvious. WMH is a better game system made by a better-run company (at least for now). I still play 40K, Fantasy, Blood Bowl, etc...and believe me, I don`t want GW to go down without a fight. I hope PPs recent success shocks GW into revamping their rules, their approach to play-testing, their release schedule, etc. etc.

Everyone has different taste with miniatures. If you don`t think PP designs fit your taste, that`s your call. But, you can`t claim that all the factions in PP are the same and use either of GWs main games as your counterpoint.

Danguinius

[AndrewGPaul]

I'm not sure that screed really deserves a reply,

edit - it didn't, so I removed it. Still, kindly don't imply that I'm trolling the forum - I was asked for my opinion and I provided it. If you have trouble believing it, the fault isn't mine.

[Danguinius]

@AGP,

To each their own, I guess.

It`ll be interesting to see how 2012 plays out with PP and GW, though. PP has again taken bold steps forward and decided to introduce another dimension to their games (with Colossals). I hope they don`t break the game. Then again, people said the same thing for cavalry, battle engines etc. and the game only got better and better...and has increased its player base almost exponentially since the release of mkII.

GW has power armor (Dark Angels) and more power armor (Chaos Marines) on the docket for 2012...both adding to the unique landscape of 40K I guess. The powers that be at GW had better hope their planned revamp for 40K is (much) better received than 8th edition WFB. Otherwise, 2012 will probably be another huge year for PP.

I`d just like to add that I`ve just been talking about rules and development of these respective games. I won`t even go into comparing PP and GW in areas like pricing (price increases), prohibiting 3rd parties from selling your products overseas, refusing to apdate armies for a decade, Matt Ward, an unsupported tournament scene, finecast, etc.

Danguinius

[Primarch]

I think that when it comes to game design, fluff and model design, it is best to agree to disagree as it really is all just a matter of taste. I have to say that I agree with some of the points AGP made, the factions are quite similar in WM as there is a certain degree of standardization across the armies. Whilst they aren't identical, they are only as different as Dark Angels and Chaos Marines. For example, every army seems to have some 8 wound heavy infantry, some fast moving assassin types and someone to repair their jacks. They might all be different, but the similarities are there too. In Wrath all the factions got battle engines, but then Hordes introduced them too. PP games are probably more balanced than GW, but that can actually be a drawback to.

Honestly, I like both PP and GWs systems and I intend to keep playing both, so lets just accept that people may have very different opinions of the games and leave it at that eh? Besides, Malifaux is far superior to both!

[me_in_japan]

^ pretty much what Prim said.

I think Dan may have (slightly) misread some of what AGP said, but rather than go through both posts and compare and contrast (which would be really annoying, I'm sure ) I'd just like to mention that I am one of the two people on this forum (the other being Spev) who has actually met both Dan and Andrew, and I can vouch that they are both good guys who would almost certainly get along if they met in person. Let's all just remember that whilst bickering amiably on the internet, shall we

[Danguinius]

Well put. We can all agree to disagree at times. Everyone has the right to like or dislike the way certain models look. And, I still play GW games and enjoy a lot of the 40K fluff. I`m not trying to drub anyone and I shouldn`t have derailed the original topic - Colossals.

Although Prim, as Trollblood player, I reall wish we had a fast-moving assassin type unit. And (sadly) as a Cygnar player, I REALLY wish we had an 8-wound infantry unit AND a fast-moving assassin type unit!

Danguinius

[Primarch]

I've only had limited experience against Cygnar as everyone locally plays Menoth, Cryx, Khador and Scyrah. Cygnar has no medium based infantry though? That is suprising.

[ennui]

Besides, Malifaux is far superior to both!

I'd disagree with that, actually... even if the card system is superior to dice. When all the factions are wildly different, you end up with a train wreck of balance that is... Malifaux.

I disagree that all the factions are similar. They may all have big robots and cavalry, but at the end of the day, Khador are big bricks on legs while Cryx is the glass cannon, and within every faction there are wildly different strategies. A mage hunter list of assassins fight differently than Kayhayazyayzy assassins, I'm sure.

But yeah, I've been blown away by just about everything PP has put out in the past couple years. Crocs got their own (half) faction! Colossals! I don't think there's anything else I was hoping for out of this game, but those two were right at the top... and I can't wait to see what else they've got in store for us.

...and meanwhile, I've forgotten all about Malifaux. Sorry Prim. I'd play more if you let me...

[Primarch]

@Ennui - I'm not stopping you, I wouldn't mind another crack at LCB actually.

Yeah, Malifaux isnt balanced, but it is lots of fun.