Gun Emplacements

[pdfitzg]

Hope GW releases a FAQ on Gun Emplacements. The rules are a bit vague and at times confusing requiring a lot of cross referencing. I've tried to pool together some gun emplacement rules and questions. Please comment or expand on.

Q1. If you had two gun emplacements from two detachments close enough together that one model could touch them at the same time, could that model operate both of them in the same phase? Same or different targets?

A1. Page 105 (Gun Emplacements) says you have to follow normal rules for shooting and that the model can fire the gun emplacement instead of his own weapon. So I'm saying no on both counts when in the shooting phase. However, if the gun emplacement has the Interceptor rule on page 38, at the end of the opponents movement phase I would say the answer is yes to both questions.

Q2. Can a model that moved that turn still fire a gun emplacment at full BS if the gun emplacement is classified as a Heavy?

A2. I think this is yes as page 51 (Heavy Weapons) speaks specifically to a model carrying a heavy weapon moving in the preceding movement phase and a gun emplacement is not carried. That said, in the Spirit of the Game, it may be more appropriate to treat as a Heavy and say the complexity of using the gun equates to moving with a Heavy.

Q3. In the shooting phase can a model that fires a gun emplacement still assault that turn?

A3. Page 51 (Heavy Weapons) says that models that shoot with heavy weapons in the shooting phase can't charge in the assault phase, so no.

Q4. If that model can assault, does it have to assault what the gun emplacement fired on?

A4. Unless someone deep sixes my Q3 answer, I'm just sticking with this being an invalid question since you can't assault after firing the gun emplacement.

Q5. If someone is trying to assault a unit that is touching a gun emplacement, is the gun emplacement used in overwatch?

A5. Page 105 (Gun Emplacement) says a model in base contact with a gun emplacement fires using normal shooting rules, so yes.

Q6. If someone is trying to assault a unit that is touching a gun emplacement, is the gun emplacement part of the unit for the purpose of close combat or can it be ignored? Especially crucial for contact by initial charger given the toughness and save of the gun emplacements.

A6. This gets a little gray because of the mix of somewhat conflicting rules that make up gun emplacments. No where in the rule book does it say once a model touches a gun emplacement that it's part of the unit. On page 105 it even mentions gun emplacements giving cover saves to models. It does say a gun emplacement can be shot at or attacked in close combat and are hit automatically in CC. I think the attacker has to designate whether or not they will initiate CC with a gun emplacement. If not, they need to go around it to get at the unit they want to fight, although that attacking unit could be in physical contact with the emplacment and choose not to attack it so my answer is no.

Q7. Can a stand alone gun emplacement be fired without an operator?

A7. The only reference I can find to automated fire for emplaced weapons is on page 96 which is referring to occupied buildings, so I'm going to say no.

Q8. If a stand alone gun emplacement can be fired without an operator, what is the BS for it?

A8. On the off chance a standalone gun emplacement is still treated like an occupied building, the auto BS would be 2.

Q9. Can a gun emplacment perform "Look Out Sir?"

A9. No because per page 16 "Look Out Sir" has to be performed by models in the same unit.

Q10. Can characters use the Precision Shot rule on page 63 with gun emplacements?

A10. Yes because page 105 (Gun Emplacement) says a model in base contact with a gun emplacement fires using normal shooting rules.

Q11. Is line of sight from the gun emplacement or the firing model?

A11. I think this is an oversight on the part of GW. Gun emplacements in buildings use weapon LoS per page 97, but standalone gun emplacements follow normal shooting rules per page 105. In the Spirit of the Game I think it should be weapon LoS for all gun emplacements.

Q12. When purchasing additional options on the Bastion fortifications where do you put them?

A12. The rules aren't specific here (they are on the Fortress of Redemption), so you can make them part of the building or use as a standalone. In the case of gun emplacements that means following different sets of rules as discussed above. As a note, the data sheet on page 116 shows the comms as a standalone but throughout the book the bastions also have emplacments on the top level. The kit is modeled to cover both instances.

Q13. This one isn't exactly a gun emplacment questions, but if you made an enclosed shape with an Aegis line, could a player put an objective marker within the enclosure?

A13. Per Place Objective Markers on page 121, no objective can be place in fortifications, you can not if the Aegis line is completely enclosed.

[me_in_japan]

*sigh*

It'd be nice if, just occasionally, GW could write a ruleset with less holes than a well-loved doggy blanket.

But not this time, obviously

I haven't got enought familiarity with the rules yet to answer the questions off the top of my head, but I'll check em tonight ad get back to you. Probly somebody will ninja me first, tho

[Konrad]

Have you posted these on Dakkadakka or Warseer? Good questions and contrary to what is usually seen, you're backing up your conclusions/guesses with page numbers and stuff. I will just say, "dunno". Got 2 games of 6th under my belt.

[Primarch]

This is just my interpretation of things, but until GW puts out an FAQ for it no-one will know for sure. (Currently the GW site has no FAQ up for 6th ed core rules....). My own preference for rules questions is to follow the information available and choose the option which isn't trying to gain an advantage at the sake of some dodgy logic and selective reading.

The key point in most of the questions is on page 105 "following the normal rules for shooting."

Q1. If you had two gun emplacements from two detachments close enough together that one model could touch them at the same time, could that model operate both of them in the same phase? Same or different targets?

Can your model shoot more than 1 gun a turn using the normal rules for shooting? E.g. Monstrous Creature or Dreadnought? If they can, then they can shoot both emplaced weapons. If not then they can't. Interceptor allows you to fire one gun in the enemy turn and the other in your own.
Note that fortifications must be deployed 3" from each other, so you may not be able to put the guns that close. (p.120)

Q2. Can a model that moved that turn still fire a gun emplacment at full BS if the gun emplacement is classified as a Heavy?

Can your model normally move and fire a Heavy Weapon? I.e. do you have the Relentless rule or similar. If not, then you are making snap shots only. (Diagram on page 53 speaks specfically to the model moving, not the gun. I would say count it the same as a carried weapon until GW says otherwise).

Q3. In the shooting phase can a model that fires a gun emplacement still assault that turn?

Can your model normally shoot a heavy weapon and assault? (Relentless for example) If not, then no assaults.

Q4. If that model can assault, does it have to assault what the gun emplacement fired on?

If you can assault (see Q3), then follow the normal rules for assault. I.e. you have to assault what you shot at unless you can assault multiple targets.

Q5. If someone is trying to assault a unit that is touching a gun emplacement, is the gun emplacement used in overwatch?

As you can fire a weapon in overwatch using the normal rules for shooting, you can use an emplacement following the normal rules for shooting. (e.g. no blast weapons, snap fire only etc).

Q6. If someone is trying to assault a unit that is touching a gun emplacement, is the gun emplacement part of the unit for the purpose of close combat or can it be ignored? Especially crucial for contact by initial charger given the toughness and save of the gun emplacements.

At no point does the emplacement 'join' the unit firing it. It has it's own statline so counts as a unit in and of itself. A charger could charge at it and/or the unit if they choose to make a disordered assault. This would also apply to shooting at the unit. They would still need someone in B2B with the firing unit to engage them in hand to hand.

Q7. Can a stand alone gun emplacement be fired without an operator?

No. Nothing in the rulebook supports this. GW were stupid to phrase the two types of weapons as Gun Emplacements and Emplaced Guns though. Nothing to stop you house ruling it though.

Q8. If a stand alone gun emplacement can be fired without an operator, what is the BS for it?

Whatever your house rule says it is.

Q9. Can a gun emplacment perform "Look Out Sir?"

No. It isn't part of the unit. It is also a large, inanimate object and that would be stupid.

Q10. Can characters use the Precision Shot rule on page 63 with gun emplacements?

Normal rules for shooting, so if you can make a Precision Shot normally, you can make it with an emplacement.

Q11. Is line of sight from the gun emplacement or the firing model?

Rules as Written, use the LoS of the firer ('normal rules' again). Common sense, talk to your opponent pre-game and decide which is best for you both. Use those rules every time.

Q12. When purchasing additional options on the Bastion fortifications where do you put them?

No rules for this. I would say, when you purchase an extra gun for your Land Raider or Rhino, can you put it anywhere you like or do you have to attach it to the model? In my opinion, the extra options should be touching some part of the bastion in some way.

Q13. This one isn't exactly a gun emplacment questions, but if you made an enclosed shape with an Aegis line, could a player put an objective marker within the enclosure?

I would say 'Yes' for this one. You can't place the objective in a fortification, but since enemy troops can freely move over Aegis walls, I think it should be ok. This rule seems to be to prevent people garrisoning a fortifcation, thereby denying the enemy a chance to move up to the objective.

As with every part of this game, if the rule isn't clear, talk about it with your opponent and decide what to do before the game even begins.
As I said before, this is just my opinion and I expect GW to FAQ some of your questions eventually.

[pdfitzg]

This came about after playing a 1500 point game the other day and spending about an hour of it looking things up. I wanted to take my time and really delve into the rules while we played as it usually sticks better that way. It was also late and we've only played a couple of games, so that didn't help either.

@MiJ, well, have to say the rule book is put together better than normal, and the indexing is much improved, but yes still a lot of oddities, some of which really shouldn't have been missed with basic play testing.

@Konrad, If I get bored later in the week, maybe I'll add all of the comments, and post on one of the big forums.

@Primarch, thanks for all of the feedback. LOL, I started thinking about some of the exceptions (Monstrous creatures, Relentless, Vehicles, etc) shortly after I posted this but wasn't up for spending any more of my day writing about 40K rules since I'll be spending tomorrow writing documents for work. After writing up the original comment I spent the next two hours cleansing my mind by mutilating Orks on my PS3 (Space Marine-chain swords are our friend).