the end times...are depressing.

[jus]

This warhammer forge business is sure presenting a huge shift in the fluff. Some people are saying its not going to be offical canon, but some alternate timeline, or some such. New units will are always a good thing though, so I look forward to what they do with this.

I don't know how everyone feels about their warhammer, but I prefer there to be "a gilmmer of hope"in that "good guys" still have a chance.

Unlike in 40k, where its 11:50 pm on december 31 in the year 39999 and the universe is about to end any second, the gold throne is past its used-by date and they can't fix it. Resistance is futile, doom is inevitable. Everyone is going to be eaten by tyranids or turned to chaos, and thats ...it. Its actually quite depressing if you think about it.

Warhmamer fantasy wasn't so depressing until ..well, warhammer forge. What do you guys think about nihilism in warhammer fluff?

[ashmie]

Interesting point. The fluff for 40k is pretty bleak but apparently the guy that crafted it was a bit bleak in his outlook too. I can't remember who it was but Rich was telling me how one of the authors for the original 40k background in Rogue Trader 1st edition rules was a bit of a madmen. His ideal community was a fortified town on an island with all minorities and riff raff kept out by mounted gun turrets on the walls and towers.
It is dark and can be depressing yes. I find if I spend too long with my head in any of the fantasy settings be it in fiction/ films or games I often feel down as it's too much time away from 'reality'.
Less is definitely more with escapism.
Warhammer fantasy Roleplay is in it's 3rd reinvention now since the 80s. The first edition was set before the tide of chaos and this worked well as the whole point was to stop the chaos gods overrunning the empire. the second edition is set after the tide of chaos and the third edition is taken back to before the tide of chaos again. The fluff can't make up it's mind sometimes.
I played Chaos in the Old World the boardgame. In this game you win by playing one of the 4 chaos gods. Your objective is to be the chaos force that is the first to devastate the Empire befor your opponant does. It left me feeling a bit ill and very fed up after playing.
If you are someone who is affected by the futile setting I would say give it a miss or at least remember it's only a game and at least the models look cool.
Incidentally I used to love fantasy battle models more than 40k but these days I think it's the opposite. The new fantasy stuff looks like factory mistakes from stop start animation projects whereas the 40k stuff is sleak and fresh.

[Colonel Voss]

yeah, they are depressing. So is being lead into the dungeon of X-ray horror and subjected to various x-ray machines then being led into a massive dental room where they are doing all sorts of drilling and other things. After that experience, the end is near suddenly sounds so much nicer

But yeah, I like that there is hope that they can stop things and turn the tide at the last minute.

[Primarch]

Unlike in 40k, where its 11:50 pm on december 31 in the year 39999 and the universe is about to end any second, the gold throne is past its used-by date and they can't fix it. Resistance is futile, doom is inevitable. Everyone is going to be eaten by tyranids or turned to chaos, and thats ...it. Its actually quite depressing if you think about it.

Warhmamer fantasy wasn't so depressing until ..well, warhammer forge. What do you guys think about nihilism in warhammer fluff?

I think you have your dates a bit wrong. What is the games name? Warhammer 39999?

First contact with the Tau was 41696 and the Nids didnt rock up until 40700ish. Officially the Fall of Medusa V (a world wide GW campaign) was 41006, and several black library novels reference up to 41127.
Besides which, when everything is happy and fun, where is the space for the heroism, the valiant last stands and the noble sacrifices.

[jus]

"11:50 pm on december 31st in the year 4xxxxx" content now Mr. perfect condescending prim? probably not, but whatever.

Besides which, when everything is happy and fun, where is the space for the heroism, the valiant last stands and the noble sacrifices.

I'd like to think that the heroism, the valiant last stands and the noble sacrifices would be a little more meaningful, if they weren't going to be absolutely feffed regardless...don't you think?

I'm not asking for everything to be, as you say, "happy and fun". Don't get me wrong, I love the grim dark 40k background. Although:

It is dark and can be depressing yes.

and it would be nice if there was just the slightest glimmer of

hope that they can stop things and turn the tide at the last minute.

In this game you win by playing one of the 4 chaos gods. Your objective is to be the chaos force that is the first to devastate the Empire befor your opponant does.

hmm yeah thats sounds a bit dodge.

[me_in_japan]

one of the authors for the original 40k background in Rogue Trader 1st edition rules was a bit of a madmen. His ideal community was a fortified town on an island with all minorities and riff raff kept out by mounted gun turrets on the walls and towers.

so far as im aware, the only chap who wrote Rogue Trader (well, the only chap with his name on the cover) was Rick Priestley.

Oddly enough, he wrote the new Warhammer Forge book, too.

There may be a connection thar, somewhere...

Incidentally I used to love fantasy battle models more than 40k but these days I think it's the opposite. The new fantasy stuff looks like factory mistakes from stop start animation projects whereas the 40k stuff is sleak and fresh.

funny, that - me too. I just dont get any "oooh" factor from any of the fantasy models available from GW nowadays.

Everyone is going to be eaten by tyranids or turned to chaos, and thats ...it.

that kind of chat can get ya locked up for heresy, yknow

nah, I reckon the Tau will save everybody and things will be fine. Just wait - you'll see

[Primarch]

"11:50 pm on december 31st in the year 4xxxxx" content now Mr. perfect condescending prim?

Yes.
Just figured that the title of the game would be a teeny tiny hint.

Anyway, who says that there is no hope in 40k? All the races have their own prophecies and visions of a better age.
Imperium - If the Emperor dies, he gets reincarnated as the Star Child. Primarchs return.
Tau - Everyone accepts the Greater Good, universal harmony.
Eldar - Rhana Dandra, the final war against chaos. All the Chaos Gods die. (but so do the Eldar).
Dark Eldar - Actually, they like things as they are right now.
Orks - Waaaagh, things are great right now, lots of fightin and stompin.
Tyranids - Nomnomnom. Burp.
Necrons - Wake up, wipe out all those flesh bags, go back to sleep and no more noisy neighbors.
Chaos - Everyone worships chaos, material universe and warp merge. All is chaos.

If you want to read some less grim and only slightly dark background try the Ciaphas Cain novels. They have a sense of humour to them that is usually missing in Black Library books. The Blood Bowl novels for Fantasy (but kind of an alternate universe fantasy) are also a bit more on the easy going side. But yeah, beyond that, 'in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war' and all that jazz.

[Seb]

I read that the only reason the emperor keeps on fighting in his current state is because he is waiting for humanity to take a leap in evolution. Think it was in the space marine codex or the rule book. If humanity can cling to life long enough to evolve into a more psychic race then the opposition will be done for. At least this is what i have understood, it might be wrong.

Nevertheless I am agreeing with Prim here, this is the most interesting time in the 40k universe where every single sacrifice and effort makes difference, there is everything to lose but also everything to gain. Truly the time for heroes to rise.

If there is something I wished that humans eldar and other races that seem reasonable to deal with would be a littl bit more friendly towards each other.

[Seb]

Everyone is going to be eaten by tyranids or turned to chaos, and thats ...it. Its actually quite depressing if you think about it.

I think that every race has its weak points, for example the tyranids appear to be strong but to me they seem like the weakest race.. Why? Because they cant think for themselves, when the highest point in the hive gets eliminated all organisms below that will fall into disarray and stop function. This weakness is already being used by humanity against hive fleet leviathan which is busy fighting orks in the southern segmentum of the galaxy.

[Primarch]

Another point to take into consideration is that all the codexes are written in favour of the race presented. From the Ultra-Fanboy tales from Codex Space Marines to the Doom of the Galaxy in Codex Tyranids, each race is presented in the best possible way for that race. Hence there are several galaxy-killing threats kicking about the 40k Universe.
Plus, for obvious reasons, the game and its background focus on the 'War' part. The gajillions of people who live out their lives on hundreds of thousands of worlds untouched by war dont get a look in. Some of the Black Library books do cover some of these, but usually only in passing or as the prelude to an invasion. The Eisenhorn and Ravenor books are very good in this regard, as are a lot of the source books for Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader.
The Imperium itself may be weak, but it is still the single strongest galactic power. A lot of the time they are reacting to threats from enemies, but they do launch crusades from time to time to take back lost worlds. (The Gaunt's Ghosts series of books show the Imperium reclaiming worlds lost to chaos across entire sectors).