Anyone for 6th edition

[Primarch]

This might be nothing, it might not be nothing, its difficult to say. I heard this on another forum and the poster has 'generally' been right with his news/rumours stuff, but usually within a short time frame from the rumours becoming fact. This is the furthest in advance he has ever posted a rumour by a long long way.

”By the end of the next Olympics we will treated to 6th ed Warhammer 40k”
Now that is something that people that follow GW trends have suspected for awhile. So really that is not that earth shattering. What makes 6thed potentially earth shattering is the version of AoBR we will get. For the first time ever neither Xenos, the Warriors of Roboute Guilliman, or the Sledgehammer of the Emperor will be chosen to fill the starter box.

No Xenos = No Tau, Necrons, Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids
No Warriors of Guilliman = No Ultramarines
No Sledgehammer = No Imperial Guard
So that would be Chaos of some flavour and some non-ultra Marines?
For those of you who dont know, the next Olympic Games are Summer 2012.

[AndrewGPaul]

Demons and Grey Knights? Unlikely.

Could be Sisters of Battle vs ... someone (Rainbow Warriors! Sister Sin vs Brother Vermilion again. )

[me_in_japan]

jeebus!

does that mean that the eldar codex will be two editions out of date then?

actually, what with the rumours of SoBs casting difficulties in plastic and all that, it could be that they were trying to make an easy-fit sprue for them, so it could actually be SoB and Chaos. Theyd be ideal opponents, and represent the 40k universe pretty much perfectly.

my vote is for SoB and Chaos.

I wonder what changes will be made to how the game plays. I really liked the 4th - 5th ed changes, and tbh I like how 5th plays. Ho hum. its a worry...

I suppose, worst case scenario, theres always warmachine

[Primarch]

Where is all this SoB stuff coming from? It could well be: Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Blood Angels or even any other non-Ultra chapter. Rainbow Warriors as AGP says.
When the recent WFB update was announced, there were lots of rumours, all from good sources, giving conflicting information about the contents of Island of Blood up until just before the release so there is lots of room for the info above to change.

But what do you hope to see in 6th?

[me_in_japan]

What do I want to see in 6th?

honestly, the list is pretty short.

1) No major rules changes. I think it works pretty well as is.
2) More regular codex updates. Update all the codexes within 2 years, then dont update any of them for however long it takes to implement the next 2 year plan. I know, its never gonna happen for many reasons, but thats what I want.
3) A new chaos codex and a new eldar codex first outta the gates (well, a guy can dream...)
4) a progression of the timeline. Some major event or storyline thingy taking place. A new black crusade. A new hive fleet (eek!), the crons are coming for Mars, etc etc.

I have no illusions about any of the above actually taking place, but you asked what I hoped to see, so I answered.

As for the SoB stuff, personally speaking I think SoBs are cool, theyre well overdue a new codex, and it would be spiffy to see the imperium represented by them in the new box set (cos its inevitably going to be imperium vs somebody) The alternative is BA or possibly DA, and that doesnt bear thinking about. SoB are far cooler than marines, because theyre portrayed as being a bit on the mad side, and that makes them more interesting than the boring old marines, who have this "shiny" image. I know, technically theyre not, but theyre marketed as "proud defenders of humanity" whereas at least the SoBs are sold on the basis of their "buuuuuuuurn, burny burny burn em all!" philosphy. There's also a lack of SoB players out there (due to neglect, more than anything else) so it could nudge a large number of gamers into collecting a new army.

As for chaos in the box set, theyd make an ideal protagonist for the SoB, and its just as easy to make CSM minis as it is to make SM minis.

so, thats my call - SoB and chaos in the box, and not too many rules changes.

*edit* could be SoB & 'crons. I could live with that, too.

[AndrewGPaul]

jeebus!

does that mean that the eldar codex will be two editions out of date then?

actually, what with the rumours of SoBs casting difficulties in plastic and all that, it could be that they were trying to make an easy-fit sprue for them, so it could actually be SoB and Chaos. Theyd be ideal opponents, and represent the 40k universe pretty much perfectly.

my vote is for SoB and Chaos.

I wonder what changes will be made to how the game plays. I really liked the 4th - 5th ed changes, and tbh I like how 5th plays. Ho hum. its a worry...

I suppose, worst case scenario, theres always warmachine

I'd like to see the vehicle rules changed, rather dramatically. If anyone remembers the old Citadel Journal, there were some playtest vehicle rules for 2nd edition in issues 10 and 11, written by Jervis. Those gave vehicles a stat line like everything else, and did away with all the armour value and damage chart silliness. As it pointed out, the only real difference between a Terminator and a Dreadnought (or an Ork in mega-armour and a Dread) is size, so why are there such different mechanisms used to handle them?

I'd also like to see the number of Codex-specific special rules curtailed rather dramatically, but I think I'm on a hiding to nowhere with that.

From what I heard, it wasn't casting difficulties with the Sisters; it was sculpting difficulties. Specifically, the way the robes hang means there's really very limited ways you can pose separate arms and the like. You see the same thing with High Elves - if you pose the heroes so they're waving their arms in the air, then the sleeves 'hang' at a 90degree angle. A set of single-pose plastics solves that problem at a stroke.

Funnily enough, at the moment Warmachine is a "worst case" for me. I'm not a fan of the "give everything a million special rules" school of game design, and the background simply doesn't interest me at the moment.

[Spevna]

I'd also like to see the number of Codex-specific special rules curtailed rather dramatically, but I think I'm on a hiding to nowhere with that.

)

YES!!!! Rather than new rules, just give units/characters access to Universal rules from the main rulebook.

[Primarch]

I'd also like to see the number of Codex-specific special rules curtailed rather dramatically, but I think I'm on a hiding to nowhere with that.

)

YES!!!! Rather than new rules, just give units/characters access to Universal rules from the main rulebook.

But they do.
Blood Angels get Furious Charge and Feel No Pain USRs.
Space Wolves get Counter Attack and Acute Senses USRs.
However, some special rules aren't universal. E.g. Dark Eldar's Power Through Pain rules. Only 1 faction gets it so they put it in that factions book. Likewise, the IG order system is only available to IG. Whilst you could just use USRs for these, they are both very situational in how they work (e.g. when the DE kill a unit they gain USRs). The marine Chapter Tactics rule basically just determines which USR they get and tells you which units it applies to. Rumours are that Necrons will lose We'll Be Back and gain Feel No Pain instead.

[AndrewGPaul]

I'd also like to see the number of Codex-specific special rules curtailed rather dramatically, but I think I'm on a hiding to nowhere with that.

)

YES!!!! Rather than new rules, just give units/characters access to Universal rules from the main rulebook.

But they do.
Blood Angels get Furious Charge and Feel No Pain USRs.

As well as Liturgies of Blood, Honour of the Chapter, Descent of Angels, Red Thirst, The Black Rage and None Can Stay My Wrath. And then there's all the special weaponry - Death masks, Bloodfists, Blood talons, Angelus boltguns and hand flamers. None of which are really necessary IMO to make the Blood Angels a distinct force - they're just there to justify a separate book. The Space Wolves book is just as bad.

I don't think the current USR list is as comprehensive as it needs to be - I'm sure some things could be added - and I'll admit some armies may need unique special rules of their own. However, I do hate this mindset that "special rules define what a unit is/does". The stat line should define the unit, with special rules used sparingly for things which the numbers can't represent. For example, I'm not convinced Marines need the And They Shall Know No Fear rule. If having Ld 8 isn't good enough to represent that they're less likely to run than normal humans, give them Ld 9 if need be.

I don't think any of the 40K books sink to the depths that Warhammer Armies: High Elves does. The Speed of Asuryan special rule reads as follows: "All High Elves have the special rule 'Always strikes first'". Why they just didn't give every High Elf "Always strikes first" is beyond me.

[Primarch]

As well as Liturgies of Blood, Honour of the Chapter, Descent of Angels, Red Thirst, The Black Rage and None Can Stay My Wrath.

Because: 'Reroll to hit', 'fearless', 'pretty good at deepstriking', 'get a USR 1 time in 6', 'get 3 specific USRs' and 'ignore shaken and stunned' lack a certain impact. Likewise, Speed of Asuryan is there to give players a reason why they get a special rule. If you take away the unique names of the rules and boil it down to essentials, you take away the flavour of the rules and reduce the game even more to number crunching and rules lawyering.
Which is better?

"Why do your death company get 3 USRs?"
"Who cares!"

or

"Why do your death company get 3 USRs?"
"Because each of them has been taken over by the Black Rage and they are reliving the death of their Primarch, which has driven them insane and out of control."

I DO agree about Blood Fists though, since they have absolutely no changes from the basic Dreadnought CCW and even from a fluff point of view aren't necessary.
Using a statline to tell you what a unit does is all very well and good, but it would make the game a little bland since lots of units have very similar statlines. Whats to differentiate a Necron from a Chaos Marine? What's the difference between a Blood Angel and a Space Wolf in game terms? (and I am sure from the sound of things several people would say 'none'). If you want to dumb things down where do you draw the line? You say, 'No unique rules and no unique wargear', why not just make it like chess or draughts so that all players have the same rules/stats/units? Yes, I know that is an extreme, but having something that makes army A different from army B is a good thing surely? Going all the way back to Rogue Trader, that game had a million rules for every different weapon/model. The current rules are much tighter, more easily referenced and more streamlined. Admittedly the scale has changed from having 20 models on the table for a big game to having 100 models, but that is only possible because the game has actually been refined down to a point where it is possible to do that.