Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

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Mike the Pike
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Mike the Pike » Wed May 18, 2011 11:49 am

A quick check on Wikipedia shows that MIJ wasn't paying much attention in High School. :D

The main lassie in the story, Portia, is not Shylock's daughter but a wealthy heiress. Shylock's daughter is called Jessica and is in love with another minor character. There is a 'trial' of sorts at the end of the play. The Judge(Duke) actually finds in favour of Shylock but it is Portia (in disguise as a lawyer) that points out that the contract was for a pound of flesh only and not the blood and other bits. Th good ole Christians win in the end and get one over on the avaricious Jew.

Cue 400 years of Racist stereotyping.
Morituri nolumus mori!

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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Primarch » Wed May 18, 2011 12:54 pm

Mike the Pike wrote:@Prim: PP Apologist :D :D :D
The Adepticon giveaway was indeed an interesting marketing ploy but it remains to be seen whether it actually worked or not.
I know. It makes a huge change for me.
Actually, the rational side of me can't find fauly with any of your comments re: GW. Sadly though, for the purposes of this conversation I am neither a Vulcan nor a Jedi and therefore reserve the right to spit my dummy out and throw a hissy fit. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Its possible that GW's production costs increased by 20% this year, or that their shipping costs increased by 20% this year or even that their staffing costs increased by 20% this year. My biggest problem is that my salary didn't increase by 20% this year (and I'm guessing neither did anybody elses). It is a huge increase in price, especially since it affects a very large amount of their products.
As I have said, I will still buy stuff from time to time, but there are so many changes for the worse here that you cannot really expect people to be happy about it.

Re: the Shylock thing.
As I have said REPEATEDLY:
I have never read the book. I had never even heard the term before Spevna used it. Now I know what it means and I'm sorry. It's not like anyone ever gave me a list of ethnic slurs to avoid. Sheesh.
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Mike the Pike » Wed May 18, 2011 1:25 pm

My salary wet down by 50% this year. I wouldn't have been buying much GW stuff anyway :cry:

As I said most of those thoughts I noted down do not necessarily reflect my true opinions. They really did flash through my head during a caffeine induced, sleep deprived night. I am not very happy about things either.

But again as I said, after being a NZ based hobbyist for umpteen odd years and getting screwed financially by exchange rates, customs, GW, TSR, and White Wolf for all but two of 'em I am just not surprised anymore and have fatalistically accepted that my hobby is going to get ever more expensive over time.

I don't think I was having a go at you, Spev, or MIJ. I just pointed out that Sh*lock is a very offensive racist slur. My arch-nemesis MIJ (How's your holo-field mate? :D ) replied that he did not think it was and meant something else entirely. My reply followed.
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Primarch » Wed May 18, 2011 1:29 pm

Mike the Pike wrote:As I said most of those thoughts I noted down do not necessarily reflect my true opinions. They really did flash through my head during a caffeine induced, sleep deprived night. I am not very happy about things either.
I don't think I was having a go at you, Spev, or MIJ. I just pointed out that Sh*lock is a very offensive racist slur. My arch-nemesis MIJ (How's your holo-field mate? :D ) replied that he did not think it was and meant something else entirely. My reply followed.
Ah well.
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by me_in_japan » Wed May 18, 2011 1:49 pm

A quick check on Wikipedia shows that MIJ wasn't paying much attention in High School.
*shrug* true, dat.

's funny, what I wrote genuinely was how I remember tMoV. Hey ho, I guess my memory sucks. (heh, tell me something I dont know already. Or do I know? I dont remember... :? ) Anyway, my apologies for writing what turned out to be a load of twaddle. (wouldnt be the first time, i spose...)


anyway: on with the debate :D
it is the associations and connotations of the word that are offensive.
and the connotations are in the mind of the listener/reader, not necessarily the speaker/writer. If the speaker/writer is deliberately using the word as a racist/sexist/~ist term, then its a different story. However, intent to be ~ist is key. Personally, I had never associated the word "shylock" (and I refuse to censor it. Its not a f*cking swearword) with racist connotations. Sure, its not something you'd call your friend, but in a situation where someone or something is squeezing every last dime out of someone or something else, I see it as an appropriate, if not particularly complimentary, word to use. Its perfectly possible to offend someone unintentionally, and I think its this kind of offence that we have to guard against. Guard against taking, I mean, not giving. I think insults and slurs should be taken in the context of how they were intended. Essentially, in a situation where someone was offended by someone unintentionally, the weight of blame-for-offence lies with the offendee rather than the offender.
I think you are confusing the similar sounding slur 'Sh*ster' with the above.
unlikely, since I have never head the word "Sh*ster" before.

It's possible that youre misinterpreting my (admittedly somewhat fuzzy) use of the phrase "tight with money". I do not exclusively mean someone who doesnt spend money much. I mean someone who does everything in his or her power to gain and keep money, and who is generally of a "I'll get what's mine" kinda mindset.

I read the the links you put up, and sure, I can see that the Jewish community has a point. Anti-semitism is bad. No arguments from me about that. In fact, anti-any-group-of-people is bad. I just think that (any) folks who take offence where none was intended might be looking for trouble where in fact there is none. Just to be 100% clear on this: I do not categorise all (or indeed, any) jews this way. I never, ever categorise groups of people. Very important part of my personal life-philosophy, that is. The only people I put into the "over sensitive about word usage and likely to take offence where none is intended" group, is people who are over sensitive about word usage and likely to take offence where none is intended, based on my personal experience of said people.

Aaaaaanyway. Right. I'm sure Ive given Pikey enough ammo to shoot me down with by now. So, Pikey - what say you :D

ps : holo field's working great, thanks chief :D
Last edited by Mike the Pike on Wed May 18, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: How about censoring the actual swearword then smartaleck? :-)
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Mike the Pike » Wed May 18, 2011 2:54 pm

It's possible that youre misinterpreting my (admittedly somewhat fuzzy) use of the phrase "tight with money". I do not exclusively mean someone who doesnt spend money much. I mean someone who does everything in his or her power to gain and keep money, and who is generally of a "I'll get what's mine" kinda mindset.
Still doesn't fit with what the with any accepted definition of sh*lock I could find out there in cyberspace. Still the Internets are a big place. :D
I read the the links you put up, and sure, I can see that the Jewish community has a point.
They certainly do. The word is offensive to them. Just because you were unaware of a more commonly accepted definition and it's racist connotations doesn't make it any less offensive. I am actually a bit amazed that self described 'edumacated' fellow like yourself didn't put 2(Shylock's ethnicity in MOV) and 2 (the way people tend to sneer as they say the same) together and realize that it may not be the nicest of terms to use and may just be a bit derogatory towards Jewish people.
Its perfectly possible to offend someone unintentionally, and I think its this kind of offence that we have to guard against. Guard against taking, I mean, not giving. I think insults and slurs should be taken in the context of how they were intended. Essentially, in a situation where someone was offended by someone unintentionally, the weight of blame-for-offence lies with the offendee rather than the offender.
What a load of cobblers. By your logic, Japanese people getting offended because someone called them a J*p without knowing it's connotations are really the ones at fault. Huh? Or didn't you realize that is an offensive word either? Would you really think yourself at fault for getting a wee tad bit upset if someone (without knowing about the real situation) starting mouthing off about the Old Firm rivalry, sectarianism in Glasgow, all gleefully illustrated using derogatory terms for both Protestant and Catholics. Not even a little bit? I would think that would make you a bit of a door mat.
I just think that (any) folks who take offence where none was intended might be looking for trouble where in fact there is none. ...The only people I put into the "over sensitive about word usage and likely to take offence where none is intended" group, is people who are over sensitive about word usage and likely to take offence where none is intended, based on my personal experience of said people.
This appears to be a veiled reference to people like myself. Why you scoundrel! <slaps across face with silk glove> :D :D :D

Seriously, I would encourage you to re-read my original post once again. I don't actually recall being particularly offended as I had assumed that Spev is almost certainly not a racist git and was merely unaware of another meaning of the word than the one he knows. I merely pointed out that the general consensus is that Sh*lock is an offensive word and has been since the MOV was published, whatever Billy S.'s true motives may have been.
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Spevna » Wed May 18, 2011 3:24 pm

Well, you rightly assume that I am not a racist (aside from my strong dislike of Turks ;) ), but I am aware of the anti semitic connotations of the phrase.

When I made the comment, I was referring to the man grabbing nature of GW and the zealous way in which they wring every last drop from their followers/customers. Wouldn't be much point in making an anti semitic comment about GW as, as far as I know, they are not part of the global Zionist conspiracy :twisted:
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Mike the Pike » Wed May 18, 2011 10:43 pm

Spevna wrote:I was referring to the man grabbing nature of GW
Freudian slip there Spev? ;)
Wouldn't be much point in making an anti semitic comment about GW as
Begs the questions though, why use the term at all when, as I mentioned above, English has so many wonderful filthy words with no added connotations for you to use? If you are stuck for an appropriate phrase may I suggest...

http://foulomatic.hnldesign.nl/

Using the above I came up with "GW are a a bunch of avaricious w*nktastic ar*e plonkers"

P.S. To any easily offended types, please apply liberally :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Spevna » Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 pm

Mike the Pike wrote:
Spevna wrote:I was referring to the man grabbing nature of GW
Freudian slip there Spev? ;)
Wouldn't be much point in making an anti semitic comment about GW as
Begs the questions though, why use the term at all when, as I mentioned above, English has so many wonderful filthy words with no added connotations for you to use? If you are stuck for an appropriate phrase may I suggest...

http://foulomatic.hnldesign.nl/

Using the above I came up with "GW are a a bunch of avaricious w*nktastic ar*e plonkers"

P.S. To any easily offended types, please apply liberally :D :D :D :D :D

I am going to blame the scotch and late hour for my "man" comment. That is my story and I am sticking to it. 8-)

I used the term to highlight how unreasonable GW are being. Technically, Shylock was within his rights to ask for a pound of flesh, doesn't mean he was right to do so. GW are well within their rights to charge exorbitant and over inflated prices for their products, doesn't mean they are right to do so.

I would be swearing with much gusto and with wild abandon if the chief moderator on this site wasn't such a prude ;)
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Re: Monday the 16th - The End of the World?

Post by Primarch » Wed May 18, 2011 11:06 pm

Spevna wrote:I would be swearing with much gusto and with wild abandon if the chief moderator on this site wasn't such a prude ;)
F*ck you! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And just to reiterate
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D No offence intended. :D :D :D :D
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