NEW DARK ELVES

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kojibear
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by kojibear » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:47 pm

Yep, agree with you on the teeth.

Hmm...slannesh, even if the fluff manages to explain it, not sold on that.

Cults of Slannesh up to now in the books were always hunted down ruthlessly by the disciples of Khaine. I think I read in one of the warseer comments that these 'slannesh' dark elves are being pinished by Malekith in some way?? Or something like that. Anyway, I don't think this was a really necessary change. Dark Elves already had plenty of units, no?

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DarkElves>All
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by DarkElves>All » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:59 pm

Colonel Voss wrote:
DarkElves>All wrote:
Primarch wrote:As someone who owns a High Elf army, I have to say that the new range of DE models is proof once again that GW hates High Elves.
We got Pokemon birdies, flying rowboats and some cross dressing archers.
Quoted for Truth.

If you want to know the reason, see my forum alias :mrgreen:

These models are growing on me the more I look at them, the Witches especially:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_I8tXa6rM
Sorry son, Space Marines rule Dark Elfdar drool. They've got 4 books to your two and they're in every 40k box release.
To be fair to fans of the so-called "High" Elves, they were one of the flagship races of Fantasy Battle 4th edition through 6th! Dark Elves on the other hand languished as one of the most neglected races until the model waves of 6th and the powerhouse book of 7th. Swings and roundabouts. Even Wood Elves once had their day in the sun with one of the best metal/plastic series of releases in the history of the game IMO.

Word is, and it is being confirmed by contents of the new DE book, that the developers have collaborated on harmonising the special abilities and 'racial flavour' of all of the Elves. Which suggests that Wood Elves will be appearing in the not-so-distant future...

(And then 9th Edition will come out a month later and screw their list once more :P )
Primarch wrote:You disapprove of crossbreeding hamsters with horses?
Almost spat my tea all over my screen with this one! :lol:
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Primarch
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by Primarch » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:19 pm

DarkElves>All wrote:
Primarch wrote:You disapprove of crossbreeding hamsters with horses?
Almost spat my tea all over my screen with this one! :lol:
My work here is done.
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Mike the Pike
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by Mike the Pike » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:47 pm

Finally got my hands on the new army book (quick dispatch from e-bay vendor but ultra slow USPS).

After a quick-ish read through over the weekend I can only say "Sweet!". Not a bad wee book. Some interesting new units, nothing really got nerfed (maybe harpies) and I don't think anyone would find their army unusable. Of course, most folks will want to add some of the cool new toys but you certainly don't have to. There are quite a few different builds to go with too.

I'm especially pleased that Witch elves are now core. If you know me at all you can expect to face lots of homicidal, scantily clad, female psychopaths in the near future.

The biggest change, rules wise, is that universal hatred is gone and that all Dark Elves (not mounts etc) are ASF + re-roll 1s when wounding. I assume Woodies will also be ASF Plus something when their book comes out next year too.

For those of you quaking in your boots at the prospect of facing the Druchii, never fear, the admittedly over powerful Hydra has been slightly nerfed. Although still powerful, it's not quite the pain in the butt it once was. No need to auto include flaming weapons to deal with it now as it lost regeneration in favour of a new rule. And of course, the Dark Elves are still only T3 for the most part who, although they have great WS and I, don't have the numbers (and therefore resilience) of say OnG, Skaven or Humans.

Anyways, I plan to spend the next few days poring over it more thoroughly and running army lists through QM. I'll let you know how I get on.
Morituri nolumus mori!

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job
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by job » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:24 pm

My plastic horse for a new dwarf book!

Well, not really. I like what I am hearing from Mike, except the bit about the USPS which remains a very admittedly unsatisfactory service. I like how the changes sound tame and reasonable. I am sure Mike's new army will be awesome and bloody to fight, although I'm not sure slightly nerfed triple hydra death will be any easier to handle then super twin hydra death. :D
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DarkElves>All
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I wrote a little review...

Post by DarkElves>All » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:42 pm

(All pictures courtesy of Aicanor at Ulthuan.net)
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53468

Dark Elves 8th Army Book

Image

So the hammer of nerf has fallen upon my beloved!

Consider the Dark Elf Dreadlord; once upon a time he could be given a 1+ AS together with a reverse ward save (i.e. 2+ ward vs high strength attacks)...and still have 50 points left over for a good magic weapon. And could be sat on a Dragon.
= for a few hundred points he could reliably tank most things in the Warhammer 40k Universe, nevermind the Fantasy Battle one!

With a variety of such broken and overpowered combos carrying over from 7th edition, the Dark Elf community itself was anxious for change and well expecting, nay hoping(!), for the nerf.

So how bad was it? Not bad as it turns out. Dark Elves have been "8thed", that is, forced into the overall dynamic of clashing heavy blocks of infantry, backed by a variety of power multipliers such as magic, shooting, cavalry, flyers, warmachines and monsters.
There have been winners and losers in terms of internal balance, but the all important external balance vs the other army lists has been improved to the point where Dark Elves are now more or less on a plane to everything 8th but the new WOC.

Image

Losers:
Hydra - loses handlers (leadership and attacks), gains a new variant of 'regenerating' that means that it is much easier to kill in one turn, but can stand up to flaming attacks better...and can even get back to full wounds assuming it isn't killed in that one turn!

Harpies - More expensive and now can panic Dark Elves. Have went from auto-include to not seen in most new lists.

Black Guard - More expensive. About as good as before, but now overshadowed by other choices save their ability to be stubborn.

Core Basic Troops - More expensive.

Assassins - Nerfed back down from infiltrating ninja assassins to their 4th edition incarnation.

Image

Winners:
Executioners - are now utterly insane. WS 5, S4 (Great weapon => S6). But ASF cancels great weapons ASL so strike at I5 = most enemy dead. Can be souped up with frenzy (in a horde this equals 40 odd S6 KB attacks, minus characters attacks!!), and turbofrenzy (50+ S6 KB attacks!!!). Will blend just about anything. Only T3 though, and easy to bait when frenzied...so can be countered to prevent broken-ness.

Manticores - cheaper and can get armour and attack upgrades. Yay!

RBT - cheaper and now special choice. Double Yay!

Witch Elves - now core. ASF and rerolls and poison = death to unarmoured opponents.

Witch Elf characters - better upgrades.

Corsairs - 4+ save and improved range for handbows. Excellent core troop screens, harassers or even combat blocks.

Dark Riders - cheaper and better armoured. Were already arguably the best fast cav in Warhammer.

Shades - Can take great weapons for S5 close combat!

Dark Magic - Now is good. Like Dark magic should have been all along!?

Special characters - now all are usable in comparison to vanilla heroes and lords.

Image

Losers and Winners:
Cauldron of Blood - Buff Chariot No.1. Loses awesome auto-buffs, T10 and 4+ ward. Now bound spell. But can move fast, charge with impact hits and be joined to unit of your choice.

Dreadlords, Sorceresses and Heroes - less cool toys but still cool!

Image

Newcomers:
Scourgerunner chariot - a light chariot with S7 bolt thrower that can harpoon and drag around enemy monsters! Sucks slightly as a basic choice. But when paired with the BS7 of the new High Beastmaster character, shenanigans are possible...

Karibdyss aka K-beastie - the only Sea Monster in regular FB...also happens not to be a Sea Monster under the rules! Forces Ld rerolls in b2b. WS 5, Strength 7, 5A. Awesome and yet fragile (T5, 5W) at the same time.

Warlocks - Basically movement 9 fast cavalry Daemons. Sweet!

Sisters of Slaughter - Dark Eldar Wyches land in FB. Slaanesh now eats the souls of all Elves in Fantasy Battle...so why not? WS6 but S3 T3 elite infantry. Remove all rank bonuses for one unit in b2b, also +1 to hit and wound vs stronger or higher weapon skill troops. Have caused some puzzlement in the Dark Elf forums, but I see them as basically Wardancers for Dark Elves. Which is kewl.

Black Ark Fleetmaster - a more expensive Dreadlord with the stats of a regular Hero (plus 1 wound) and less equip/magic items allowance. Matt Ward.

Bloodwrack Medusae - I like to think my wishlisting in the Dark Elf forums helped bring these to life. It is a shame they slightly suck sans Shrine. Leadership 2!!! I'm going to use them as basically guard dogs for any Sorcerous generals on foot I run.

Bloodwrack Shrine - Medusa pimp wagon. Buff chariot No. 2. Messes up enemy Ld and shoots a few annoying stares at the enemy. Fluffy but usability in competitive lists is currently questionable.

Image

Overall, I enjoyed the book. Fluff was well written. Internal balance errors disappointing, but overall external balance makes up for it. Dark Elves are now powerful and flexible but yet not overpowered or over-niched.

Now, to try out all these new killing options on the unsuspecting folk of Ulthuan.... :twisted:
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Primarch
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by Primarch » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:29 pm

Dark Elves were already great and it sounds like they just got even better.
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DarkElves>All
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Re: NEW DARK ELVES

Post by DarkElves>All » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:11 am

Primarch wrote:Dark Elves were already great and it sounds like they just got even better.
I would say Yes and No. Playability in 8th looks a plus thanks to better infantry. Ability to counter some competitive lists has went down slightly.

We've lost some ability to deal with super-powerful enemies (such as Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons) due to loss of magic items.

We've lost the ability to auto-buff any units in a 24" bubble. Bound spell is much less reliable, and is only a single option.

Rare Monsters are significantly weaker with low Ld and lowered survivability.

Re-directing more costly and difficult without reliable cheap harpies.

We've lost some ability to dominate the magic phase due to nerf of sac dagger and PoD. But Dark magic has improved and we have gained 4 more lores...so can't complain too much!

The power up of our infantry means that we can go toe to toe with most armies now. And I didn't really go into it in my earlier post, but we have great leadership hexing ability throughout the army - both mundane and magical.

Warriors of Chaos chariot spam is the only real thing a good all-comers Dark Elf list fears now...impact hits are our bane :evil:
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EVEN MORE!

Post by DarkElves>All » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:05 pm

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