Pensions

[ashmie]

It's late and it's probably not the best forum for this topic but you guys are my only source for these things.
Pensions for gaikokujin. What is going on?
A friend of mine told me that a new law had been passed just last month which means even though we pay our pension each month we are no longer entitled to claim it on retirement. Or the local board that dishes out the pensions isn't entitled to pay us a pension. You know, being foreign and all, why would we want one?
Insane? Yes. And now I know why all the anti racism demos have been taking place lately.
What is going on?
Anyone up to speed on this? Being recently separated and considering a future here this is a real deal breaker for me in regards to staying. Still waiting on my permanent residency. They said June?
Anyway, pensions is the topic.

[Primarch]

Not sure exactly what the details are, but I thought it was the Japanese equivalent of the dole we weren't entitled to.

From what I read in the Japan Times, an 80+ year old permanent resident tried to claim benefits from the government. When they refused she took them to court. The local council folded and agreed to pay, but the national government took it to the supreme court who pulled up some ruling from the late 40s saying that only citizens were entitled to welfare, but that it was up to the local authority on whether or not to pay out.

On the one hand, I can see why the government wouldn't want johnny tourist turning up in Japan, marrying some girl and then sitting down to a life on benefits. On the other hand, since we legally have to pay into the national insurance and pension schemes, being refused any payment back out makes the whole thing look like extortion.

It's probably something we should all look into in more detail.

[Lovejoy]

I know that the UK has a kind of linked tax/pension arrangement with Japan (as do most countries) regarding tax contributions, so would be surprised if that was suddenly sacked off. Worth delving into though. My wife did some quick research and said that if you pay into Japan's pension (kokominnekin?) for 25 years you can still claim it even if you return to the UK. So, doesn't sound like they are exactly denying pensions.

[Primarch]

I just read through a couple of Japan Times articles and a blog discussion by Debito Arudou a rights activist in Japan. The current ruling only affects benefits claimed due to having no other means of support. Pension is unaffected, unemployment payments are unaffected.

So far....

Pensions etc. are covered by international laws and treaties.

[me_in_japan]

I read a bit about that story at the time, too. It's got bugger all to do with pensions. As Prim says, an 80something year old lady, who has been resident in Japan for pretty much her whole life but is not and has never been a Japanese citizen (she's of Chinese parentage, iiirc) claimed what amounts to income support from her local council. They assessed her and said no, she made a counter claim, it was taken to the high court, and the high court quoted the law which has been in place since 1940something, which states (again, iirc) residents of Japan are eligible for benefits. The wibbly wobbliness comes from how it interprets "resident". Is it someone who is a citizen or just someone who lives here? Bear in mind the law is written in Japanese, so the English word "Resident" is not a 100% match for the Japanese word. The high court says it's up to the individual prefecture to decide, which has always been the case. The prefecture assessed her, and decided she had enough savings that she wasn't eligible for the support. Now, was she given a bum deal because she wasn't Japanese? I dunno - you'd have to ask the guy doing the assessment.

In short, there is no new law, and even if there were, it is unrelated to pensions. It is and always has been down to how each individual case is dealt with by each prefecture. The only downside (and it's by no means an insignificant one) is that now the high court has officially ruled that it's ok, other prefectures may well feel emboldened to treat people differently based on their residence status.

[ashmie]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/0 ... -VZwdkayc0 here is the article claiming a new ruling has been made saying the local office are not entitled to pay us like they would a Japanese.

The 80 year old was claiming for additional support benefit apparently. Not pension.
That's it Dave, correct, basically the Supreme Court has ruled we aren't guaranteed anything if the local office decides. Where as a Japanese national is protected and guaranteed a pension if they have been paying 25 years.
No guarantees for foreigners on benefits. Whether that will extend to basic pension? Hopefully not hey.
Good scoop for the Japan times at least.

[Primarch]

When the UN set up treaties covering people's rights to pensions etc, they made all their members remove 'national' clauses from their constitutions. The benefits in question did say nationals only (this is before they had permanent resident visas, I think). The UN said "Change that clause too!", to which the Japanese Government responded "We treat everyone as if they were Japanese anyway."

Fast forward to a few years ago.
The woman who kicked this whole thing off hadn't just been here for most of her life as M_i_J says, she was born here. She has Chinese parents and therefore Chinese citizenship. She speaks only Japanese, worked and lived here all her life and payed into the welfare system. Why she didn't naturalize, I don't know, but it is possible she tried and was rejected.

Anyway, she asked the government in her local prefecture for income support. They said "No, you have 10 million in the bank." She then asked to be reassessed and at this stage was told "You aren't Japanese so you aren't entitled to it." She took the council to court and the Fukuoka High Court said "She is entitled, because we can't discriminate against people due to nationality, UN said so."
Then someone took it to the Supreme Court who looked at the original document and ruled "It says nationals here, so it is up to the local authority to decide if that includes permanent residents or not."

When asked by the Japan Times, the Pensions and Welfare Department said that nothing had changed and that this was how it had always been handled. They also said that only this income support payment was in question. Only 1% of people in the country are on this benefit and it is means tested, you can only claim if you are one step away from being homeless. Single mothers, the long term unemployed and disabled people are really the only ones eligible for it.

So basically, unless someone takes this to the UN and they force the amendments on Japan it isn't going to change, but it shouldn't have any affect on us so long as we are employed/capable of earning an income. If you lose your job employment insurance covers you. If you are injured, accident insurance should cover you in most cases. If you aren't a Permanent Resident/Marriage Visa holder and can't work you get nothing as Work Visas only let you stay if you are employed. In most cases you won't need income support, so take care of your health, don't walk out on a job without being sure you can get another and you should be fine.

Long story short, keep working, don't get sick and don't worry.