Kill Team 2021

[The Other Dave]

Fortunately for my closet, I’ve pared down my 40K collection to the point that I now have “only” 3 kill teams really, Death Guard, Tyranids, or Scythes of the Empra Firstborn - which is still plenty for demos, happily enough.

Edit: Hmm, I also guess I have a Militarum kill team, kind of. Since I just have a guardsman fire team and a scions fire team, and the scions have to have a tempestor (the way I've got them built), only the scions could ever benefit from orders, which is not terribly efficient. Still! There they are, and it may just be a call to get a second box of scions, so I could use a guardsman sergeant as the kill team leader and actually give orders to everybody.

(And really, special forces and regular grunts not playing well together seems pretty thematic, if unintentionally so. )

[Balloonacorn]

I also got the Octarius box today.

I am very impressed with the terrain - nice and thick.

Choices for kill teams - I have my award winning Grey Knights, the only thing I have (90%) painted. They don't get smite anymore but will still be competitive I believe. Blood Angels and Death Guard are also a possibility, but I really want to play the Ork Komandos or that super-secret team I have had for about a year and never played.

I am looking forward to someone explaining the game to me.

[The Other Dave]

I am looking forward to someone explaining the game to me.

I think there's going to be a lot of "figuring out what the heck is going on together" going on.

FWIW, looking through the rules and a battle report or four, Grey Knights look like they'll be really strong (here they are wiping the floor with some - admittedly poorly-rolling - Death Guard). I expect the psychic powers will give you a lot of flexibility, and at the very least being able to boost your armor save to 2+ at will looks real good.

I was looking through the space marine bits planning out my firstborn kill team, and for all that people are (not too unreasonably, I guess) complaining about lack of customization in Primaris marine kill teams, I think it's balanced out by Primaris marines just being incredibly solid. Even boring ol' Intercessors - bolt rifles are nice with some reliable AP, and for a small investment of equipment you can turn one of them into a very respectable weapons specialist with an auxiliary grenade launcher.

[Jye Nicolson]

Interestingly I think you want to lean in hard on the bolt weapons themselves for Marines due to Bolter Discipline. A Heavy Bolter up on a Vantage Point is going to lay down some serious hurt.

[Mattb]

I've got a good idea of how the basic rules work now, but I still need to wrap my head around some of the more advanced stuff. I still have no idea what all of the weapon traits mean, although it's not hard to make an educated guess on some of them.

I'll be able to easily put together an Ork boy and Imperial Guard killteam, although I think both of them are looking pretty damn weak.

Edit: Hmm, I also guess I have a Militarum kill team, kind of. Since I just have a guardsman fire team and a scions fire team, and the scions have to have a tempestor (the way I've got them built), only the scions could ever benefit from orders, which is not terribly efficient. Still! There they are, and it may just be a call to get a second box of scions, so I could use a guardsman sergeant as the kill team leader and actually give orders to everybody.

Actually, I'm trying to figure out how these Guard orders work - from what it looks like the Tempestor has no ability to issue orders at all? Surely that's a mistake!

[The Other Dave]

Actually, I'm trying to figure out how these Guard orders work - from what it looks like the Tempestor has no ability to issue orders at all? Surely that's a mistake!

The Tempestor doesn't need it, since when you issue guard orders, they effect all your Scions automatically. That does mean that if you have a mixed Scion / Guard force with a Scion leader, the Guardsmen won't be able to be given orders (which is what I was talking about with my force being sub-optimal, since I only have 5 scions and one is a Tempestor). But a mixed force with a Guardsman leader will all be able to get orders, since the Guard Sergeant will give orders to all the Guardsmen (either by being close by or through the Comms operative), while the Scions will just get them.

Which, again, is thematic, as it makes sense that Guardsmen would only be trained to follow their chain of command (which a Tempestor isn't part of), while Scions can get the orders through their vox channels and act on their own initiative.

I'll be able to easily put together an Ork boy and Imperial Guard killteam, although I think both of them are looking pretty damn weak.

I think Guard can be competitive, because (again, if you have a Guard Sergeant in charge) they can all get the orders pretty easily, and they're very solid buffs, you can get a goodly bunch of special weapons*, and (as befits guard) massed lasgun fire is nothing to sneeze at. You'll really need to be careful with cover to help your terrible survivability, but OTOH you have lots of warm bodies, kill teams don't care about morale, and if you're careful with positioning there's a hard limit to how many of your guys an enemy you outnumber can kill in a given turn.

*A mixed Guard / Scion team with a plasma gun and a grenade launcher in each fire team will have a lot of armor-piercing damage potential.

[Mattb]

The Tempestor doesn't need it, since when you issue guard orders, they effect all your Scions automatically. That does mean that if you have a mixed Scion / Guard force with a Scion leader, the Guardsmen won't be able to be given orders (which is what I was talking about with my force being sub-optimal, since I only have 5 scions and one is a Tempestor). But a mixed force with a Guardsman leader will all be able to get orders, since the Guard Sergeant will give orders to all the Guardsmen (either by being close by or through the Comms operative), while the Scions will just get them.

Oh I see, thanks! So if I were to run a Guardsmen Sergeant leader and I used a strategic ploy, my Scions would immediately gain the order regardless of where they are, but my Guardsmen would only receive it if the were in range of the officer or a vox operator? Huh, that's better than I thought then.

I was hoping to run a Tempestor, but I think the Guardsman Sergeant is slightly more useful. Although the Tempestor gets to use a strategic ploy for free, so maybe it'll still be worth it?

Also you're right: much like the Guard in 40k, they might be more dangerous than they first appear.
With a Scion and Guardsman fireteam, I could run 2 plasma guns, a meltagun and a grenade launcher.

[The Other Dave]

Oh I see, thanks! So if I were to run a Guardsmen Sergeant leader and I used a strategic ploy, my Scions would immediately gain the order regardless of where they are, but my Guardsmen would only receive it if the were in range of the officer or a vox operator? Huh, that's better than I thought then.

Correct! And yeah, it seems pretty good. You'll probably end up with the sergeant and comms specialist holed up behind cover somewhere because they'll be really important to you, but again, that seems pretty thematic.

The Tempestor ability to get the order every turn without spending CP does seem very nice, although it's balanced by then only having two tactical ploys (the reroll and Bring it Down) to spend the free CP on. (OTOH, unlike in 40K you can use the reroll multiple times a turn, and Bring it Down really starts to make massed lasgun fire dangerous.) That plus the scion order looking really good for lots of missions means an all-scion force could be pretty dang flexible (but then, no doubling up on special weapons ).

[Mattb]

The Tempestor ability to get the order every turn without spending CP does seem very nice, although it's balanced by then only having two tactical ploys (the reroll and Bring it Down) to spend the free CP on. (OTOH, unlike in 40K you can use the reroll multiple times a turn, and Bring it Down really starts to make massed lasgun fire dangerous.) That plus the scion order looking really good for lots of missions means an all-scion force could be pretty dang flexible (but then, no doubling up on special weapons ).

It's actually a free strategic ploy, I think, so he gets one extra order for free!

I want to try an all Scion force - the only problem is I don't have enough weapons. I just built a bunch of plasma guns, meltaguns and a volley gun for 40k. If I can get my hands on some pieces for a grenade launcher guy though I'll be in business!

[The Other Dave]

Right, but in KT your orders are Strategic Ploys.

I found some spare easy build Intercessors I had kicking around, so now I guess I have an Intercessor kill team? Their lack of special weapons is indeed slightly boring (especially since I don't have bits to give one an auxiliary grenade launcher to mitigate - unless I can scratch-build one, hmm...), but on the other hand they just seem really solid, and bolter discipline potentially giving double shots to all 5 guys makes me look at my death guard (who have basically the same ploy but only 2 guys with boltguns on the team, and no chance to get that juicy AP) and feel sad.